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returntothepit >> discuss >> Mark's Show Place is fucking ridiculous by SteveOTB on Dec 26,2006 8:21am
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toggletoggle post by SteveOTB   at Dec 26,2006 8:21am
We were just offered to play with God Forbid, Goatwhore, Scar Symmetry & The Human Abstract and they wanted us to be the first slot (due to our guitarist's age), they wanted us to buy 25 tickets at $15.00 up front and basically we would have roughly 2 weeks to accomplish selling 25 tickets and coming up with $375.00. Fucking place is ridiculous. If I have to sell a few tickets without having to pay up front that's fine we could do it but the fact that they want $375.00 right away when the show is 12 days away is out of control.



toggletoggle post by sinistas   at Dec 26,2006 8:27am
We had to drop $1000 and sell 50 tickets to open for Moonspell/Katatonia/Daylight Dies. I'm pretty sure that's the only time we'll ever do a show there unless something ridiculous comes through.



toggletoggle post by SteveOTB   at Dec 26,2006 8:29am
sinistas said:
We had to drop $1000 and sell 50 tickets to open for Moonspell/Katatonia/Daylight Dies. I'm pretty sure that's the only time we'll ever do a show there unless something ridiculous comes through.


Wow and I thought we had it bad, that's out of fucking control. Were you able to sell them all?



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 26,2006 8:38am
just blame it on horseface...everything that is bad is hereby her fault from now till eternity.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Dec 26,2006 8:51am
I will never go to Mark's for any reason, ever. It doesn't help that it's over two hours away and I never see anything I like going through there anyway.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 9:02am
FuckIsMySignature said:
just blame it on horseface...everything that is bad is hereby her fault from now till eternity.


What a jerk. I don't make my local bands pay to play at all for a national. Unless You're a hobby rocker... I don't blame Bernie.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 26,2006 9:05am
I'm confused, is hobby rocker what you call your vibrating promoter wand?



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 26,2006 9:06am
also i love how you finally acknowledged that you are in fact a horseface.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 9:11am
I'm used to it now



toggletoggle post by diamond_dave  at Dec 26,2006 9:32am edited Dec 26,2006 9:32am
total bullshit. if you were OFFERED the show, they shouldn't expect anything from you except to do your part in promotion. if a club wants to ask a band to sell tickets, that's their business, but to require it is lame. especially when the club is an hour away from your band's hometown. if you don't sell the tickets are they going to tell you the day of the show you can't play? what if you sell 20? do those people get refunds if they don't let you play? plus anything more than 4 bands on a show, in my opinion, is just a ploy to fill the club. no one benefits from that. the people who want to see the headliners will show up late so they don't have to sit through 17 bands, and the openers have to scramble to set up and break down just to play for 20 minutes to no one. bullshit.



toggletoggle post by sinistas   at Dec 26,2006 9:36am
SteveOTB said:


Wow and I thought we had it bad, that's out of fucking control. Were you able to sell them all?


We sold all but 2 I think, so a loss of $40 overall. It was worth it just to see Ken geek out when he met Jonas from Katatonia though.



toggletoggle post by horror_tang  at Dec 26,2006 9:52am
Don't do it. You could not put a headliner in front of me that I would sell tickets to play with, ever. If a club or promoter is asking you to sell tickets they are basically saying they do not have the faith in you to bring people in the door. It is their job to being the people in by promoting and putting good bands on the bill.

Only shithead promoters and clubs will give you the line of "well, if you can't sell # tickets then maybe you're not that good." It is a cop out and they need to do their job better. If a promoter needs bands to sell tickets then they are lazy and need to get out their and, gasp, promote.



toggletoggle post by archaeon at Dec 26,2006 10:21am
The Mark's Showplace myspace posted a bulletin that said "Do you want to play December 30th, send a message to NE concerts!"

Mortalis sent them a message and of course they haven't gotten back to us, still that the dumbest bulletin Ive ever seen



toggletoggle post by archaeon at Dec 26,2006 10:24am



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Dec 26,2006 10:24am
we were offered the same bullshit for the same show, but we had to sell 75. fuck that.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 26,2006 10:27am
welcome to the music business.



toggletoggle post by fishcakes at Dec 26,2006 11:41am edited Dec 26,2006 11:41am
as much as we want to play this place, we will never sell tickets. ever!



toggletoggle post by pam nli at Dec 26,2006 12:01pm
Marks and pay to play is gay.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 2:33pm
pam nli said:
Marks and pay to play is gay.


It's not gay if an unknown band wants exsposure in front of a lot of people that they normally would not be in front of. Besides, the bands can make their money back by selling the tickets. It's not rocket science, people. It's also an opportunity to sell merch.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 26,2006 2:34pm
No it IS gay...always. Go away whore.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 2:36pm edited Dec 26,2006 2:40pm
your opinion



toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 26,2006 2:38pm
That's YOUR, stupid. And it's everyone else here's opinion as well. Fuck off.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 2:39pm
Mark's doesn't have a problem getting bands to pay to play. The ones that are confident enough to know that they can sell the tickets pre-bought



toggletoggle post by theaccurseddrummer  at Dec 26,2006 2:43pm
blackmetallady said:
pam nli said:
Marks and pay to play is gay.


It's not gay if an unknown band wants exsposure in front of a lot of people that they normally would not be in front of. Besides, the bands can make their money back by selling the tickets. It's not rocket science, people. It's also an opportunity to sell merch.


You can't be serious? That's a cop out, and there's no way to possibly intelligently defend a stance like that. You can't tell me that asking a band to pay the promoter or club to play a show isn't lax promotion and piss-poor show management. Especially if that band is going to have to travel to play, haul in their own gear, etc. Don't talk about selling tickets, how is a band from MA or RI for example going to sell tickets to a show in Maine when anyone who would buy said tickets could just as easily drive 20 minutes to see the same band locally for less money? The icing on that cake is bands that suck it up and do that footwork get paid less, if at all. Pay to play is gay, no matter what the circumstance. Football teams don't sell tickets to play in their own game, the crowd pays, buys drinks, buys merch. You should be paying bands to play, not asking for a handout to help pay the headliner and doing your promotion. I've booked big enough shows with decent drawing bands and never pulled that shit. It's not about "can you sell X# tickets," but "can you come to our show and play your music for the people who like this style." The club should sell its own tickets, promote its own shows and make money at the door and selling drinks/food/etc., and then the bands should get paid. A band should never be forced to pony up cash for tickets and then hope to make enough in ticket sales to break even. That's nonsense.



toggletoggle post by DrinkHardThrashHard  at Dec 26,2006 2:46pm
The more people support pay to play venues by attending their shows, the more this will continue.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 2:50pm
Excuse me sir. I don't ask bands to pay to play. I never have. I have a select few locals that I work with that draw well and I pay them. I just don't hold anything against promoters who require pay to play. Sometimes I give a new band a shot. I asked RAOV to open for Goatwhore last month and they didn't sell any tickets, but I didn't care, because they pleased an unknown crowd in a market they have never played before. You're screaming at the wrong promoter, sweetie.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 26,2006 2:50pm
I try to avoid them whenever possible.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 26,2006 2:51pm
blackmetallady said:
Excuse me sir. I don't ask bands to pay to play. I never have. I have a select few locals that I work with that draw well and I pay them. I just don't hold anything against promoters who require pay to play. Sometimes I give a new band a shot. I asked RAOV to open for Goatwhore last month and they didn't sell any tickets, but I didn't care, because they pleased an unknown crowd in a market they have never played before. You're screaming at the wrong promoter, sweetie.


Sweetie? Don't fucking patronize my brother, cunt.



toggletoggle post by DrinkHardThrashHard  at Dec 26,2006 2:53pm
blackmetallady said:
Excuse me sir. I don't ask bands to pay to play. I never have. I have a select few locals that I work with that draw well and I pay them. I just don't hold anything against promoters who require pay to play. Sometimes I give a new band a shot. I asked RAOV to open for Goatwhore last month and they didn't sell any tickets, but I didn't care, because they pleased an unknown crowd in a market they have never played before. You're screaming at the wrong promoter, sweetie.


Not sure who you were referring to here since you didn't include a quote, but I was talking about Mark's Showplace.



toggletoggle post by hungtableed at Dec 26,2006 2:58pm
pay to play = gay
anyone who promotes it should be neutered



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 2:58pm
theaccurseddrummer said:
blackmetallady said:
pam nli said:
Marks and pay to play is gay.


It's not gay if an unknown band wants exsposure in front of a lot of people that they normally would not be in front of. Besides, the bands can make their money back by selling the tickets. It's not rocket science, people. It's also an opportunity to sell merch.


Don't talk about selling tickets, how is a band from MA or RI for example going to sell tickets to a show in Maine when anyone who would buy said tickets could just as easily drive 20 minutes to see the same band locally for less money?


This is what I was talking about. I choose bands from all over New England to open for a national here in Maine, without requiring them to sell tickets. How could they if nobody knows them? Why do I do this? Because I actually want to help the Maine Metal Scene by bringing more talent into Maine. I'm helping bands and giving the Mainers a really good top notch show. It's a win-win. You all have me all wrong. pitty.




toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 26,2006 3:01pm
That's P-I-T-Y. God, I hate you.



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 3:04pm
I have 4 opening acts for a big national. 3 locals that draw well and one unknown from a different state to bring diversity to the Maine Metal Scene. I don't know anyone else that does this. I'm a nice, kind person and I'm picked on. I'm not the ememy.



toggletoggle post by theaccurseddrummer  at Dec 26,2006 3:06pm
blackmetallady said:
Excuse me sir. I don't ask bands to pay to play. I never have. I have a select few locals that I work with that draw well and I pay them. I just don't hold anything against promoters who require pay to play. Sometimes I give a new band a shot. I asked RAOV to open for Goatwhore last month and they didn't sell any tickets, but I didn't care, because they pleased an unknown crowd in a market they have never played before. You're screaming at the wrong promoter, sweetie.


To dispel your assumption about my argument here, my point was regarding pay to play in general, not aimed at anyone in particular. I never claimed that you did or didn't do anything, it was about the concept of paying to play, which you defended. If you don't personally practice it, then you probably realize that it's a practice that takes advantage of young bands, and that the promoters who regularly utilize that tactic are passing the buck on paying the headliner and promoting the show to a band that should be getting paid to play, not the other way around. Therefore it astounds me that you wouldn't take a specific stance against it, since bands and even fans see that shit is "the promoter's fault." It makes all show promoters look bad. I never said you did it, but I'm not going to sit around and let anyone defend it because it sucks. If you promote, you know what your local crowd likes and book accordingly, not book random bands and force them to do your job. Talking about a particular market is laughable in this scene, it's virtually impossible to pin down something like that in metal, you don't know what's hot today and gay as shit tomorrow, bands who draw great in one town draw like shit in another two miles down the road, and that's no fault of theirs.

Incidentally, I'm hardly screaming. I do that in all caps, as it should be.

Oh, and after the things you've said about my sister, whether provoked or not, I would appreciate if you not call me cute little pet nicknames.

blackmetallady said:
sweetie


You don't even know me.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 26,2006 3:15pm
you are the ememy



toggletoggle post by blackmetallady at Dec 26,2006 3:19pm
My practices are different as you read above. I take chances on bands. Like I wrote... I choose 3 locals that draw well and give one new band a chance at every show. However, I won't hold anything against a promoter who does not practice my ways. This is what makes me special, yet I get ragged on. Listen, this is a business and not everyone is like me. I'm willing to lose money on an unknown band, but good karma comes back to me. Look at RAOV for example. they didn't sell any tickets when they opened for Goatwhore, which means they didn't make me any money. However, the crowd LOVED them and made people happy. Therefore, the next time RAOV is invited back on one of my bills.... they will sell tickets because know they have new fans. Get it? I think some asshole bands on RTTP who has put me down owes me an apology. I'm done explaining myself.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 26,2006 3:20pm
you are never done explaining yourself.



toggletoggle post by theaccurseddrummer  at Dec 26,2006 3:29pm
There are two sides to this issue, you're either for or against pay-to-play practices by promoters. The answer is the same no matter what you practice with your own business, there's no middle of the road, and if you're sitting on a site populated mostly by members of local bands I'd say it's an important stance that you pick a side for. You can talk about what you do, how generous you are to bands or whatever, but if you condone that practice, you might as well be doing it yourself.

Also, the term "hobby rocker" that you so affectionately toss around is offensive to musicians. Anyone doing this takes a loss financially and sacrifices time for it because it's in their heart, so stop making a mockery of it. It's not appreciated, and surely no way to make friends.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 26,2006 3:31pm
No one owes you shit you fucking idiot. We told you to fuck off months ago. If you stay, you deserve exactly what you get. You're fucking self-importance is overwhelmingly disgusting.

We "owe you"...fuck you!



toggletoggle post by luke not logged in at Dec 26,2006 3:38pm
I didn't read this whole thread, so I apologize if someone said this already, but I need to chime in....Pay to play is the lamest bullshit ever and really shows how scummy and full of shit promoters can be.
And, if you are in a band and are willing to pay to play, just give up...you're worse than a cover band.



toggletoggle post by sinistas   at Dec 26,2006 4:50pm
blackmetallady said:
I think some asshole bands on RTTP who has put me down owes me an apology. I'm done explaining myself.


You owe grammar, common sense, and oxygen an apology, dicknose.



toggletoggle post by archaeon at Dec 26,2006 5:03pm
this thread sucks



toggletoggle post by Kevord  at Dec 26,2006 5:13pm
archaeon said:
The Mark's Showplace myspace posted a bulletin that said "Do you want to play December 30th, send a message to NE concerts!"

Mortalis sent them a message and of course they haven't gotten back to us, still that the dumbest bulletin Ive ever seen


Do you think the fact that your 16 might be the reason a 18+ strip club hasn't got back to you?



toggletoggle post by diamond_dave  at Dec 26,2006 5:29pm
blackmetallady said:
Look at RAOV for example. they didn't sell any tickets when they opened for Goatwhore, which means they didn't make me any money. However, the crowd LOVED them and made people happy. Therefore, the next time RAOV is invited back on one of my bills.... they will sell tickets because know they have new fans. Get it?


so you "gave them a chance" and because they did well, next time you will force them to sell tickets. did i get it?




toggletoggle post by archaeon at Dec 26,2006 5:37pm edited Dec 26,2006 5:47pm
Kevord said:
archaeon said:
The Mark's Showplace myspace posted a bulletin that said "Do you want to play December 30th, send a message to NE concerts!"

Mortalis sent them a message and of course they haven't gotten back to us, still that the dumbest bulletin Ive ever seen


Do you think the fact that your 16 might be the reason a 18+ strip club hasn't got back to you?


They don't know my age/ im the youngest in the band anyways, and it would be pretty assholish not to respond at all.



toggletoggle post by hey Diamond Dave at Dec 26,2006 7:49pm
i think she was saying that she provided a crowd for RAOV to play infront of (for Free). so RAOV's fanbase get's bigger, she also encourage's hard work. if you sell tickets for her you get a commission.

-from one of the bands she works with-



toggletoggle post by archaeon at Dec 26,2006 7:56pm
haha what band would that be?



toggletoggle post by Pay To Play Can WORK FOR U at Dec 26,2006 8:01pm
if you are a "New Band" who's been rehursing and who dosn't have a audience you can pay to be infront of a HUGE crowd. In-turn that will get you new fans who will...

a) buy your shit
b) most likely like your music
c) support you

if you play your cards right you can go from 0 fans to oh 150 or more! this is how KISS did it ... this is how METALLICA did it and counless others. That's how Ozzfest does it! there is a reason for this!

also when you usually pay to be on a show your band get's print, radio, and tv ads ... you dont have to pay the expense for getting publicity for your band...


-a band who has played on MMSP show's-



toggletoggle post by Pay To Play at Dec 26,2006 8:23pm
i forgot the major point... it free's you up so you can just "practice"...



toggletoggle post by archaeon at Dec 26,2006 8:27pm
But Metallica and Kiss both suck now so those are shitty examples



toggletoggle post by Bernie and Leigh at Dec 26,2006 8:46pm
I think Bernie and Leigh should be lovers. Someone photoshop them together.



toggletoggle post by jim NLI at Dec 26,2006 11:37pm
hahah. someone do this! I wish I had photoshop



toggletoggle post by Cecchini   at Dec 26,2006 11:38pm
blackmetallady said:
I have 4 opening acts for a big national. 3 locals that draw well and one unknown from a different state to bring diversity to the Maine Metal Scene. I don't know anyone else that does this. I'm a nice, kind person and I'm picked on. I'm not the ememy.





your not a kind person, your an ignorant and simple minded baffoon who initially came here to drag a bunch of bands into some pointless and childish squabble you had with another group in maine and when that didn't work you got all pissy.


also you call everyone a hobby rocker who basically "isn't in it for the money", when in reality your term of hobby rockers are the people who keep music pure by not doing things for money/fame/others, but for themselves. i find it amusing that you talk about bands being "in it for the music" when in reality its "in it for the music business".


but you know what? all that would be fine and dandy, the big problem with you is that you wipe your ass after taking a shit like a thousand other promoters in this area do and you think you deserve some sort of martyr status or a gold medal, get over yourself you are not that important.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 26,2006 11:55pm
Musicians=people who pay to play, Hobby rockers=fuck you?
I get it.



toggletoggle post by Kevord  at Dec 27,2006 1:20am
Didn't Metallica do it through tape trading?



toggletoggle post by DrinkHardThrashHard  at Dec 27,2006 1:34am
Yes. Tape trading and having pretty amazing music once upon a time, music they could pull off live pretty well.



toggletoggle post by mark fucking richards at Dec 27,2006 1:50am
i've said it a million times, but i will stress again--as many have already said in this thread--that the pay-to-play policy is absolutely ridiculous.

that whole "pay to play can WORK FOR U" post is just propaganda to make it seem like a get rich quick scheme. you forgot to add that if you don't sell enough tickets, you will either not play or have to put up a lot of money that could have been used for something more worthwhile.

there is nothing you can say to oppose this argument that can be justified. you could say "well if you can't sell the tickets then you might not be good enough." OR you could think of the REAL reason: there are many, many people against pay to play (as we've seen in this thread and many others), there are many people who are not old enough to enter these shows that would be willing to pay, and there are also many, many, many people who would go to the show, but won't really make it definite until the last minute.

think of it this way: would you spend $15 or more on an event that you may have to skip out on at last minute because you or a loved one is in need of medical care or your car breaks down? sure, $15 may not be much to some, but most people have so many bills and have to put gas in their car, buy food, etc. that $15 is not very expendable. there are many other aspects to factor in, but those would be the bulk of it.



toggletoggle post by DrinkHardThrashHard  at Dec 27,2006 2:02am edited Dec 27,2006 2:07am
Considering that many of the best bands I've ever seen have had extremely small crowds (often 10 or less people), I can honestly say that the quality of a band has very little to do with its popularity or live draw. For example, my clear favorite local live bands draw very few people (no names), and I've seen dogshit, dime-a-dozen metalcore bands that can draw 120 bored kids from their high school circle of friends with no problem.

Promoters want to make money, granted. That is the nature of the beast. But assuming reasonable promotion for a show has been made, national bands should be able to cover their own cost, especially with a well-assembled, fitting support bill. Making bands that desperately need exposure carry that weight just isn't cool. It never has been.

I'm just thankful we've got some promoters around here like Joe, Rich, Alex, etc who book bands they believe in.



toggletoggle post by MadOakDevin  at Dec 27,2006 2:08am
all the shows at mark's seem be gay metal bands with extraordinally high guarentees. fuck those touring bands man. shows shouldn't be $15. If those bands can draw in enough people to keep the show cost down to something normal, they shouldn't be expecting to make that much on the road.

2ndly nh sucks.



toggletoggle post by powerkok   at Dec 27,2006 5:48am
I havent been keeping up with much of the Blackmetallady/Pam/95% of rttpers, but I just read this, and I have this to add:

1. There is no way in fuck, that BML has listened to even 50% of rttp bands.
So, when you say things like shitty rttp bands, etc, it will probably rub some of us (in bands) the wrong way.

2. Hobby Rocker, as Accursed Drummer said, is very insulting. If I added up all the sacrifices, that my band and I, family and close friends, have made, it would add up to YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars.

What hobby in the world could amount to that?
And, thats just one aspect of it.

3. pay to play sucks.
Im not saying this against Marks, because weve had good relations with Bernie, and enjoy playing there.
Yes, there is an oppurtunity to make a little cash if you sell every ticket, but lets be realistic, if you DONT sell every ticket, you pay out of your own pocket.
That SUCKS.
Loading, unloading, gas, beer and a 30 minute set of the most draining, exhausting music on the planet (death metal in general), and now I have to pay the fucking club??!!
Only a fool could dispute this.

4. NH dosent suck.

5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while.

Im done for now.



toggletoggle post by Two-Sided Season at Dec 27,2006 7:45am
powerkok said:

5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while.

Im done for now.


She does, didn't you read her post?




toggletoggle post by SteveOTB   at Dec 27,2006 8:48am
Seriously I can't wait to get out of MA/NH for shows. Drifters was our place to play for all ages shit but I think they're closing down plus I believe we're banned anyway after the Mosh 'n Roll cover we did for shits and giggles and we're never offered hall shows I'm guessing because we're not straight up hardcore. I like hardcore and all but it seems like no matter who I talk to no one is willing to even give us a shot because we don't exactly fit in with the scene. Hell I can't even book hall shows because everyone is so hush hush with information or places don't book shows because of incidents that went down. We can't really play 21+ shows because our guitarist is 17 and anything over 18+ we never draw. It sucks, we're basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. I blame MA/NH for their stupid laws. That's my rant for the day.



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Dec 27,2006 8:49am
The only thing gayer than pay-to-play is people who defend that jewbag way of doing business. Promoters who don't have enough confidence in themselves to do things the right way should get out of the fucking business.



toggletoggle post by powerkok   at Dec 27,2006 10:52am
Two-Sided Season said:
powerkok said:

5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while.

Im done for now.


She does, didn't you read her post?



No, didnt you read mine?



toggletoggle post by powerkok   at Dec 27,2006 11:00am
powerkok said:
I havent been keeping up with much of the Blackmetallady/Pam/95% of rttpers.....





toggletoggle post by aeser   at Dec 27,2006 11:04am
pay to play is the most desperate pathetic thing i can think of doing, and lets for a moment examine the excuses sheisty cheapskates give to justify this:

1: "oh you're an unknown band and this is a chance to get some precious exposure"

yea, you're unknown, the best way to get known is to WRITE SOME GOOD FUCKING MUSIC AND RECORD AND RELEASE IT EITHER YOURSELF OR ON A LABEL IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE ONE ASK YOU TO DO A RECORD, and playing a lot of shows where you don't get total bitch timeslots, you don't get big by paying to open for some huge headliner because guess what, people couldn't give a shit about your band and most won't even show up till you're done playing because %99.9999999 of the time opening bands suck and people are there to see headliners, not you, if you happen to kick so much ass that you WOULD get anywhere off playing that ONE show opening for a national, then you can also make a name for yourself playing smaller shows on a regular basis and getting your records out there, and that $375 or $1000 or whatever ridiculous ammount buys some decent studio time and or pays for cd pressing, so you decide which is better to spend your money on

2: "oh well you can just sell tickets and make your money back"

what schmuck buys tickets to a show from some random band? people buy them from the venue or ticketmaster or whatever the fuck, no ones gonna give YOU the same ammount of money they'd pay the venue itself, you are going to get stuck with the tickets, count it as a loss, the best you can do is offer them at half price or some goddamn incentive for your friends to buy them from you vs. the venue itself


if your venue cannot draw enough people to pay the bands their guarentee and make enough of a profit on top of it and on drinks to make it worthwhile to stay open you're fucking up somehow, either by not drawing enough people, or by guarenteeing a band the ammount of money you guarenteed them.

marks has a ridiculously sick sound system and enough space for decent sized shows, and at least says they spend $100,000 a year on promotion, which all makes sense for huge shows, the only thing i can think of going against it is it's location, the middle of nowhere in bedford nh you have this major venue, and people in new hampshire just plain don't go to shows (with a handfull of exceptions, like the rev of course who's at every goddamn show that occurs anywhere in new england). people in NH are more likely to go to a show in boston or worcester than a show in their backyard for some reason, which i saw repeatedly in the 10+ years i lived there, whereas you look at vermont or maine or of course boston and worcester and people do bother to go to shows in their own area.



toggletoggle post by Dwellingsickness at Dec 27,2006 11:05am
powerkok said:


5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while.

Im done for now.


Mark's is the king of repetitive lineups, The Dark Funeral and Unleashed shows are the first I seen in a while at Mark's that have different bands opening.



toggletoggle post by C4R4C4LLA at Dec 27,2006 11:09am
promoter/booking agent: "well if your band cant sell at least 25 tickets that means to us that your not ready to play at our venue."

this is normal for large venues. booking agents are not trying to make friends they are trying to make money.





toggletoggle post by Dwellingsickness at Dec 27,2006 11:17am
The Bombshelter did way better in my opinion BEFORE the mandatory ticket sales bullshit. Attendance was always good. Having to sell tix is gay, But I can understand both sides of this argument.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Dec 27,2006 11:24am
I understand why venues do it, I don't understand why bands do it. Yeah you might get some exposure, but not enough to make the money worth it. As far as most people are concerned those opening bands are just in the way of the headliner they came to see.



toggletoggle post by SteveOTB   at Dec 27,2006 11:32am edited Dec 27,2006 11:33am
aeser said:
pay to play is the most desperate pathetic thing i can think of doing, and lets for a moment examine the excuses sheisty cheapskates give to justify this:

1: "oh you're an unknown band and this is a chance to get some precious exposure"

yea, you're unknown, the best way to get known is to WRITE SOME GOOD FUCKING MUSIC AND RECORD AND RELEASE IT EITHER YOURSELF OR ON A LABEL IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE ONE ASK YOU TO DO A RECORD, and playing a lot of shows where you don't get total bitch timeslots, you don't get big by paying to open for some huge headliner because guess what, people couldn't give a shit about your band and most won't even show up till you're done playing because %99.9999999 of the time opening bands suck and people are there to see headliners, not you, if you happen to kick so much ass that you WOULD get anywhere off playing that ONE show opening for a national, then you can also make a name for yourself playing smaller shows on a regular basis and getting your records out there, and that $375 or $1000 or whatever ridiculous ammount buys some decent studio time and or pays for cd pressing, so you decide which is better to spend your money on

2: "oh well you can just sell tickets and make your money back"

what schmuck buys tickets to a show from some random band? people buy them from the venue or ticketmaster or whatever the fuck, no ones gonna give YOU the same ammount of money they'd pay the venue itself, you are going to get stuck with the tickets, count it as a loss, the best you can do is offer them at half price or some goddamn incentive for your friends to buy them from you vs. the venue itself


You make a very valid point. The only good thing that came out of playing the Cattle Decapitation show was when we got off stage the guys from CD came up to use and said we were fucking awesome and we all hung out and played pool. Other than that no one really cared.

I think the best way for us is to play as many shows as possible, promote the band every chance I can get, try to make some contacts, and talk to a small indie label about putting out an album for us. That's all I can really think of doing that would work for us in the long run. We just signed an endorsement deal with No Fear Clothing which is our first endorsement so maybe that'll help us gain some exposure as well. What it comes down to is that you just need to bust your ass if you want to get anywhere. Just like any company you start from the ground and build your way up, being in a band and shooting for success is no different.



toggletoggle post by porphyria at Dec 27,2006 12:18pm
powerkok said:

2. Hobby Rocker, as Accursed Drummer said, is very insulting. If I added up all the sacrifices, that my band and I, family and close friends, have made, it would add up to YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars.


IMO most of us are 'hobby rockers' or 'weekend warriors' as hooker put it...unless we're professional musicians/tour constantly as a main job. nothing wrong with it as long as you're having fun, it doesn't mean you can't be just as passionate about it as a 'pro'.

people spend thousands of dollars on hobbies and most of the time don't break even to make any sort of profit. for example, aaron has put so much into this site from gas money to shows, hosting, computer equipment, and most importantly his TIME...and do you think he really makes any money from it? nope.



toggletoggle post by DrinkHardThrashHard  at Dec 27,2006 12:26pm
It's the truth.



toggletoggle post by Hoser at Dec 27,2006 1:07pm
Powerkok....very well put, sir.

Speaking of...when are we practicing next?



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Dec 27,2006 2:05pm
This is amazing. The hatred of Horseface has brought all of us together. I am finding myself on the same side as people I've had massive flame wars with in the past.
At least that stupid ugly bitch is good for something



toggletoggle post by pam nli at Dec 27,2006 2:07pm
Josh_Martin said:
This is amazing. The hatred of Horseface has brought all of us together. I am finding myself on the same side as people I've had massive flame wars with in the past.
At least that stupid ugly bitch is good for something


hahah, it's so true.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 2:10pm
Fuck you Josh! Sorry...it just felt good to make my first derogatory statement. Timing is everything



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Dec 27,2006 2:10pm
Someone should book an anti-Horseface show and have all of us "hobby rockers" play.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 2:12pm
I'm down, not so much on the anti-horseface part, but the hobby rocker part...sure.



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Dec 27,2006 2:14pm
yummy said:
I'm down, not so much on the anti-horseface part,


You're out.





toggletoggle post by pam nli at Dec 27,2006 2:14pm
Josh_Martin said:
Someone should book an anti-Horseface show and have all of us "hobby rockers" play.


That would be outstanding. You could use the still of the video someone made of her getting railed by a horse for the flier.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 2:18pm
I just think it would go without saying that it would be against her. Plus putting her name on the flyer would still be giving attention to her. Bad pubilicity is still publicity?



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Dec 27,2006 2:20pm
No one outside of the board would know who "Horseface" is.



toggletoggle post by Sinistas   at Dec 27,2006 2:20pm
the "hobby rocker" comment last night almost made me pass out.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 2:20pm
What would be awesome is if Goatwhore headlined.



toggletoggle post by Josh_Martin at Dec 27,2006 2:22pm
yummy said:
What would be awesome is if Goatwhore headlined.


Ben is too nice a guy. Even if he realizes how much she sucks he's too nice to say anything.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 2:22pm
although it would defeat the purpose I think the irony would be outstanding.



toggletoggle post by pam nli at Dec 27,2006 2:23pm
Sinistas said:
the "hobby rocker" comment last night almost made me pass out.


That was awesome.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 2:23pm
I agree there.



toggletoggle post by Hoser at Dec 27,2006 3:22pm
Hobby Rocker Fest 2007

Someone book this. Right fucking now.



toggletoggle post by yummy at Dec 27,2006 3:57pm
there ya go



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Dec 27,2006 4:04pm
make sure you book all those bands that she's "friends with" (ie RAOV, Zircon, etc) then send her a nice invitation.



toggletoggle post by powerkok   at Dec 27,2006 4:07pm
Im down!



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