(CNN) – The billboard wars between atheists and believers have raged for years now, especially around New York City, and a national atheist group is poised to take the battle a step further with billboards in Muslim and Jewish enclaves bearing messages in Arabic and Hebrew.

American Atheists, a national organization, will unveil the billboards Monday on Broadway in heavily Muslim Paterson, New Jersey and in a heavily Jewish Brooklyn neighborhood, immediately after the Williamsburg Bridge.

“You know it’s a myth … and you have a choice,” the billboards say. The Patterson version is in English and Arabic, and the Brooklyn one in English and Hebrew. To the right of the text on the Arabic sign is the word for God, Allah. To the right of the text on the Hebrew sign is the word for God, Yahweh.

Dave Silverman, the president of American Atheists, said the signs are intended to reach atheists in the Muslim and Jewish enclaves who may feel isolated because they are surrounded by believers.


“Those communities are designed to keep atheists in the ranks,” he says. “If there are atheists in those communities, we are reaching out to them. We are letting them know that we see them, we acknowledge them and they don't have to live that way if they don’t want to.”

Silverman says the signs advertise the American Atheists’ upcoming convention and an atheist rally, called the Reason Rally, in Washington next month.

Atheists have long pointed to surveys that suggest atheists and agnostics make up between 3% and 4% of the U.S. population. That number increases when Americans unaffiliated with any religion are included. The Pew Center’s U.S. Religious Landscape Survey found that 16% are unaffiliated, though only a fraction of those are avowed atheists and agnostics.

Silverman acknowledges that the pair of new billboards will likely cause a stir.

“People are going to be upset,” he says. “That is not our concern.”

“We are not trying to inflame anything,” he continued. “We are trying to advertise our existence to atheist in those communities. The objective is not to inflame but rather to advertise the atheist movement in the Muslim and Jewish community.”

The billboards will be up for one month and cost American Atheists, based in New Jersey, less than $15,000 each, according to Silverman.

Mohamed Elfilali, executive director of the Islamic Center of Passaic County, laughed when he learned the Arabic billboard would go up in the same town as his office. He says he’s surprised that someone is spending money on such a sign.

“It is not the first and won’t be the last time people have said things about God or religion,” Elfilali says. “I respect people’s opinion about God; obviously they are entitled to it. I don’t think God is a myth, but that doesn’t exclude people to have a different opinion.”

But Elfilali bemoaned the billboards as another example of a hyper-polarized world.

“Sadly, there is a need to polarize society as opposed to build bridges,” he says. “That is the century that we live in. It is very polarized, very politicized.”

Rabbi Serge Lippe of the Brooklyn Heights Synagogue had a similar response.

“The great thing about America is we are marketplace for ideas,” he says. “People put up awful, inappropriate billboards expressing their ideas and that is embraced.”

But Lippe acknowledged that there are a lot of agnostic and atheist Jews. A recent Gallup survey found 53% of Jews identified as nonreligious. Among American Jews, 17% identified as very religious and 30% identified as moderately religious.

“When you have two Jews in the room, you have three opinions,” joked Lippe.

American Atheists have used the word “myth” to describe religion and God on billboards before. Last November, the organization went up with a billboard immediately before the New Jersey entrance to the Lincoln tunnel that showed the three wise men heading to Bethlehem and stated “You KNOW it’s a Myth. This Season, Celebrate Reason.”

At the time, the American Atheists said the billboard was to encourage Atheists to come out of the closet with their beliefs and to dispel the myth that Christianity owns the solstice season.

The Christmas billboard led to a “counter punch” by the Catholic League, a New York-based Catholic advocacy group. The Catholic League put up a competing billboard that said, “You Know It's Real: This Season Celebrate Jesus."

Silverman says his group’s billboard campaigns will continue long into the future.

“There will be more billboards,” Silverman says. “We are not going to be limiting to Muslims and Jews, we are going to be putting up multiple billboards in multiple communities in order to get atheists to come out of the closet.”

AWESOME.

There's this fucking billboard on my way to school every morning, for like the last year it's been this "Abortion Stops a Beating Heart" bullshit (and/or similar nonsense). Looks like they're having funding problems, 'cause a few weeks back, it suddenly changed to a "KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS" bb, paid for by the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

That is pretty great. I wonder though what atheists are "in the closet." Mosr people I meet who identify themselves as atheists aren't soft spoken about it.

Good, I hope this continues.

good. i actually took it upon myself to read the Bible, i suggest anyone who is against it should do the same. i just finished Deuteronomy and i don't know how much more i can take.

I find atheists to be just as pushy as the zealots who try to be modern day missionaries. I'll happily not care about any of it, thank you very much.

yeah, there are some aspects of atheism that bother me, the word itself bothers me, but i think that pushing back and being borderline obnoxious about it are necessary. they have been doing it for thousands of years, and we are now in an era where the atheist views are thriving, so i say fight fire with fire.

I'm not even necessarily one, but I support them and all their works. We either have a government and a society that attempts to subscribe to some sort of objective reality, or one that doesn't - which will then, by default, be Christian, same as a store is, by default, Wal-Mart.

Atheism is as much of a myth as the Abrahamic God.

I only believe strongly in the fact that I have no fucking idea about what is real concerning higher powers. Until I am presented with definitive evidence to sway me otherwise... I will continue this belief. As should any other rational thinking person IMHO.

This is an excellent use of freedom of speech


















and trolling.

I love when people go out of their way to tell you how much they dont care about something.

I doubt you meet many people who live in exclusively jewish or muslim neighborhoods.
Try saying you're an atheist when you're surrounded by people who will kill you for it.

I love when people tell other people how much they love hearing about how they dont care about something.

BUT I CAAAARE, MAAAN

You're right about exclusively muslim neighborhoods but I actually have a couple family members that live in Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn. They're not religious. They survive. ::shrug::

I don't know how making a 2 sentence post on a message board is "going out of my way," but whatever you say.

I grew up right next to Paterson, NJ. This won't piss them off, they'll just perceive it as advertising spam and keep on trucking. But cool PR move, atheists. Convert the heathens into nothingness!

really? i enjoyed it (as lit). Leviticus is hilarious, as far as anti -pc nonsense goes. Read it as different books, not chapters. keep in mind the books were written by different people, and that's why there are so many contradictions between books. Maybe get a bible guide, will put in perspective parts that you would otherwise not have any idea about. (some books are just a collection of unrelated poems, others are letters written to some random person, no way you'd know that.)

if you're reading it just to hate it, i think you have too much time on your hands. Its the most alluded to collection of books for a reason. You don't have to agree with it to appreciated it.

The historical books are the shit. for example
1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles
+ more

I read the books of Moses in college, so i didn't like it by default. I didn't like any of the books of wisdom, i couldn't get through them all. I didn't read the new testament.

Only Alx's bible class is real.

i'm actually not reading it just to hate it, but reading it is making me hate it even more. the reason i chose to read it is because if i want to oppose it, i want to know the nature of it. so far the most prominent points are that God really loves circumcision and really hates unleavened bread.

guess you missed the part where god acts like a child the entire time, then starts to grow up. its kind of like an episode of step by step.

how do you oppose fiction anyways?

This is, as it happens, the definition of atheism. It's the absence of belief. Soooo... congrats.

Not quite.


"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

I do not reject the notion of some sort of Deity or higher power. I simply just do not know for sure that one does or does not exist. Because of that, I cannot willingly or rationally subject myself to any religion's rules or condemnations. So whatever the word for that is... that's what I am.

I believe trolling can be spritual and religous.

That's not actually correct, though. It's Wiki-correct, I'll grant you that. Atheism is the absence of belief in a higher power. "The absence of theism." If you do not possess a belief in God, you are an atheist.

This definition is, of course, contested by those who do not wish statistics to show a significant portion of atheists in the US, to the point where many people who fit under its definition are not, in fact, aware that they are atheists.

The definition you're quoting hinges on the idea that belief in invisible men in the sky is the default assumption, and that one need profess to reject this belief in order to not possess it. It's politically useful to an awful lot of people... and it's a bunch of silly horseshit.

Put simply:



Yup... there is. It's "atheist."

No. Agnosticism exists. Not taking a stand and outright denial are different concepts. Your position seems to be one that says agnosticism is a branch of atheism but for me, it's the difference between yes, no and maybe.

Ok, for you it can be different, but from an objective standpoint, that actually is the case. It's not so much "my position" as "the actual literal definition of the word". Agnostic basically means "I am an atheist, but prefer not to make waves by proclaiming myself such."

disbelief =/= denial

This is clouded by the Richard Dawkins and Bill Donohues of the world, unfortunately.

Denial certainly emcompasses disbelief, so those that deny God ARE atheists, as well.

Since we're quoting random crowdsourced internet articles on the subject:

http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/DisbeliefDenial.htm

Saying what it basically means is your interpretation of a definition, not an objective standpoint.

No, actually, words have definitions, and this is one of'em. It's not the popular understanding of the term, but that's because Christfags run the world and most people are idiots.

Something akin to "America is a democracy." Common knowledge, also not true.

Silly me starting a debate like that when i'm about to break up with a girl. Anyways, i'm not down for extensive reading but please post your definitions. I get the crux of your argument but not regarding definitions. Skepticism and denial don't mean the same thing.

I'm just firing from the hip here, nothing personal. Honestly, read the article I posted - it draws the logical A to B in a lot more paragraphs then I'm going to bother typing. Long story short, if you look up in the sky and fail to believe there is a God (or gods) up there, you are an atheist. It's an inclusive (not exclusive) term.

Didn't take it personal, man. was just a shitty time for me to engage in a conversation regarding a topic of such magnitude. I'll check it out later. Cheers. You're incorrect though. ;-)

i feel like there's a difference. but then again i dont really care.

your stance is what Bill Maher has dubbed "apatheist". you don't care either way whether there is a god.

despite not wanting to be labeled as an atheist, my stance is exactly atheism. the idea of a supreme creator is so absurd that i feel like i am gnostic about the whole premise of God, but to proclaim absolute certainty is equally as absurd. if God itself reached down from the sky and poked me in the eye, i still wouldn't want anything to do with it. so i can't claim agnostic either, since i'd just assume i was losing my mind. so in turn it cycles back to atheism. good argument, though the heat above is based simply on semantics.

relevant

a friend raised a good point in a fb thread the other day that never gets enough play:

- how many people who believe that they believe in a god (who answers prayers and looks after them etc.) actually behave as if they believe in god? in other words, on a day-to-day basis, in practice, how many people actually RELY on their faith in god to accomplish things? as in, "oh shit, i didn't study for this test... help me out god!"

any observation of believers would soon show that when it comes down to it, in reality 99.999% of them actually end up relying on themselves to get shit done.

cue the typical religious response of "no, it's him that gives us the power to do it ourselves etc."...... then why pray, dickhead?

Prayer, when used as meditation and not mindless chanting, has significant positive physical and psychological effects on the one who is praying. Numerous studies have shown that. Studies have also shown that there is no effect when you pray for someone else's health.

I hold the belief that religion is good for some, mainly for the above reasons. Everyone should be free to believe in what they want, just as long as it doesn't bother someone else. And if you believe in something different than your fellow man, expect and accept that your beliefs will be questioned.

actually to counter the end of your first point, i wish i had the article to link, there was a study done that if someone is gravely ill and they know they are being prayed for, they have a higher mortality rate.

Null effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer#Efficacy_of_prayer_healing

That's not a counter to the end of my first point, I never said that someone who knows that they're being prayed for that they has a better outcome.

ORLY

"Another 2006 study suggested that prayer actually had a significant negative effect on the recovery of cardiac bypass patients, resulting in more frequent deaths and slower recovery time for those patient who received prayers."

that's why it's a counter argument, because you stated that it had no effect.

my scenario: you pray for someone who doesn't know you're praying for them

yours: "John, the entire church is praying every night for you to get better! Hope Jesus doesn't let us down!"

Heh, I like that. That's me right there.


Agnostic = chickenshit atheist

The word "pray" is subjective.

I am not religious per se and in the past I have dabbled in the occult.
There is NO QUESTION that meditation and faith (subjective) is good for a person. I put faith in tangible things (myself, family, friends, nature) rather than a supposed omnipotent being floating in the sky.
I'm a firm believer in spirituality but am anti-organized religion. Meditation takes me to places where I would otherwise never go to. It's what you do in your mind that counts. We know little about the power of our mind.

Also, ALIENS.

I agree with aril.

You do have to support your better half, of course.

When I'm in a car, he takes the wheel!

Spirituality is a good thing, even if just for personal health (meditation etc.). Absolutely agree.

I was talking about when faith-heads pray for an end to a drought or for little Timmy's cancer to stop spreading; no matter how much they might claim that god is doing something, how many of them actually behave as if the prayer is very likely to do something? You'd think these faith-heads would've noticed by now that their day-to-day behavior unwittingly resembles that of someone who acknowledges that the amount of positive outcomes don't correlate with the amount of prayer.

GOD SAID TO NOAH, THERE'S GONNA BE A FLOODY FLOODY...

fair enough. in that case then yes prayer would do nothing, aside from maybe help the one praying to cope with what they are praying about.

see to me, the fundamental difference between prayer and meditation, despite the benefits of both, is that prayer is an attempted communication to a higher being, whereas meditation is an attempted communication to oneself. prayer and meditation may have many similarities, but i think that religious prayer is selling oneself short. you're never going to get an answer through prayer, but you can find a whole new sense of self through meditation. then again, i think that if someone really wants to journey to the center of self, just do mushrooms.

LET US DO THEM

NOT DUBSTEP

USANDTHEMSTEP

I WANT
TO LIST YOU
ALL

Acausal demons > atheism

Put me down for that one then. I definitely share Maher's point of view on religion... and weed. Not so much on mostly everything else.

only praying to win championship sports games is real

Atheists range from those who will either not acknowledge that deity(ies) exist but not necessarily deny their existence (implicit), or claim the statement "a deity does not exist" (explicit). The whole spectrum of atheists implicitly or explicitly deny the supernatural/spiritual existence.

Agnostics claim that the existence of deities is unknowable and unquantifiable by any standard. This is the only claim that the agnostic makes. The agnostic doesn't deny spirituality, or question the existence of deities, but rather questions the one making the claim for their existence or nonexistence.

There is a difference, atheists claim nonexistence, but agnostics claim unknowable. Atheists and theists both claim to know, and the agnostic says to both: "prove it." Agnostics believe that human perception and reasoning will always fail to verify either position.

And to be clear or more confusing, there can be "agnostic theists" and "agnostic atheists". You can still believe in the existence of a deity while claiming the extent of it's existence is ultimately unknowable.

and i especially like this one: Ignosticism
The view that a coherent definition of a deity must be put forward before the question of the existence of a deity can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition is not coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of a deity is meaningless or empirically untestable.[17] A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept "a deity exists" as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against.

Well said, Ark. Never heard of ignosticism. I can dig that.

Or there's always Blaise Pascal. He gave up his life as a mathematician for a monastic life. His reasoning? If there is no God or afterlife, there is no harm in living a religious life. If there IS a God and afterlife and you don't act in accordance with the way that deity wishes people to life, you're shit out of luck and jolly well fucked lol.

Pascal's Wager is one of the worst arguments for acceptance of religion.

ignosticism is interesting, however the coherent definition of the deity in question (Jehovah) is established by the church. many people have different ideas on what constitutes God, however at the core it is omnipotent and omniscient, unanimously. despite it's untestability, it can still be debated since the burden of proof lies on the believer.

essentially it's a futile debate due to the untestability, but a believer is so confident in the existence, and the definition of it's omniscience, that it's fun to corner them.

No it isn't.

it's like playing the lottery. "you can't get saved if you don't play". it's too easy.

bennyhillifier

bennyhillifier

Christians generally believe that even nonbelievers can be saved if they follow the "golden rule."

Regarding the lottery argument... it's true. I'm not saying I'm religious, because I'm most definitely not but I think it's actually one of the BEST arguments for religion in a sea of terrible arguments for religion haha.

fair enough, that's the New Testament God, who pardons everyone except blasphemers. at least the Old Testament God had balls.

there is no one more confused about their religion or sexuality than yeti.

I thought you read the old testament? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

no i'm still in the process.

His argument that "empiricism isn't enough to prove axioms such as X = X, therefore the intuition that provides our certainty that it does is a gift from God" is the same as O'Reilly's "can't explain that" argument.

Pascal was an agnostic theist by the way =D

of determining my sexuality.

and that was a statement made in jest, it seems that God forgives everything nowadays.

except confused sexuality.

Cher is a gnostic troll.

Lick Crazy Dan and dryhump my leg about it, you atheist7

Yeah it's funny how the image of god morphs with society. How can perfection change?

Haha I haven't read that he said that.

Makes sense that he was an agnostic theist.

ITT:

Haha yup. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, man so I'm way more well versed in this stuff than I'd ever want to be. Old Testament God was less balls and more misfit child with a bad temper though.

I can explain that picture. Dorky looking guy is walking home from a wedding. UPS truck crashes, all the shit falls out of the back. He's gay so he grabs a sewing machine while the cops have their backs turned.

Simple

new testament/confucian/captain picard high moral ground always takes more balls.

Pascals wager doesn't work because:

1. No matter what religion's version of god you choose, the you'll being going to hell in the majority of religions. It's like when Homer Simpson said: What if we're worshiping the wrong god? Every time we go to church we'll be pissing him off.

2. Since there's no evidence (the whole point of the wager) to say contrary, one could also attribute equal chance to the notion that god(s) does not WANT to be worshiped. In which case pascals wager can be used AGAINST the acceptance of religion.

Woke up this morning, turned over the "John Reader" calendar in the bathroom, it helpfully explained that the word "agnostic" was invented by a biologist who was squeamish about the word "atheist". lulz

Thank you, bathroom reader!

The only difference between atheists and agnostics is that agnostics are afraid of what society will think if they say they don't believe in god.

aka chickenshit atheist

BRB I'M GONNA START A WAR ON AN INVISIBLE ENTITY THATS THE SAME AS YOUR INVISIBLE ENTITY