They want me to submit songs to them for some stupid show, where they will play the songs in the background (and give them no credit and won't pay us for use of those songs).

I told the lady I either want money for the songs she uses or the songs be available for free download off the MTV site with full credit to the band with contact info for the label, or she has no deal.

cool

It sickens me, this lady has probably conned a bunch of small labels to agree to her retarded offer.
MTV can suck my dick.

glad you counteroffered and stuck to your guns on this one... what show?

some show called MADE, Greg just told me it's about some fat girl who wants to become a cheerleader.

so this is why i hear bands i like in the backround of gay shows?

I am sure she will ignore my request and just find a label who will let her take advantage of them and their artists.

I hear all that remains, god forbid, into eternity in the background of viva la bam, and wildboys..

which I think is pretty cool, BTW.

and give them no credit and won't pay us for use of those songs).


ummm that sounds weird

you still get money if your songs are published. i recommend doing that to make some $$$ and then you can give them to mtv and still get a good chunk.

fuck them. At least list the names of the bands during the credits at the end of the show. Bunch of greedy cock smoking corporate sluts.

I'm sorry.

damn, i thought u were gonna say they e-mailed you asking u to stop sending them nude pictures of yourself

me too.

ha ha ha!
i say fuck em

That doesn't suck. If a label is too cheap to register with BMI or ASCAP and publish the songs then too bad for them. All you need to do is dish out alittle money and if someone wants to play your song on the radio, on tv, in a movie, etc you get fucking paid for it.

If you want to make the money you need to do things like that. If you don't, don't bitch about it.

It's like a show. To make money after you spent money on the venue and promotion you need to sell tickets or charge people to enter.

Or if you don't care about yourself making money but hope the bands do. Tell them to go publish their own songs (go to talk to Ken Cmar who owns Peach Music Publishing). I think giving the songs out for free would be helping out your bands, too. Just because money isn't involved doesn't mean you won't make it in the long run from doing something like this. Who knows maybe people will hear that look the band up and you'll get a few more sales.

ASCAP and BMI run publishing fees from song to song, much too expensive considering I how many songs are on each release and how many releases I have.

And how would people who hear the band on that show know who to check out if it goes completely uncredited?

Joe/NotCommon said:

exactly.

BMI actually has a one time fee. I believe it's $300. And ASCAP also has a monthly fee, so you are able to do that for relitively cheap.

i missed the uncredited part.

but anyway you look at it, it's just bad label management, not MTV being assholes.

Yeah, I definately do a bad job.

I really don't understand how it's bad label management.

Because it's not bad label managment. I know all about BMI and ASCAP, and I don't want anything to do with them.
If MTV pays out for song usage to those publishing companies, then they will do it the same way they do radio, paying out who gets played the most based on averages and shit. Paying 300 dollars for the slight chance to get paid pennies because MTV might use a song uncredited in some lame show is not something that makes sense.

This kid can argue all he wants about how I run my label, but he has no idea because he is never there when decisions are made on anything.
It was obviously attendmyrequiem who made that post, and he just doesn't like me or my label because I don't sign metalcore bands and I made fun of his beloved Red Chord.

i don't understand why anyone would defend MTV under any circumstances.

I don't understand why people think having a publishing deal with BMI or ASACAP is a key to make a shitload of money? The payouts, unless you are getting a ton of airplay and are in heavy rotation in several stations, is miniscule at best.

bands who get played small amounts on only a few stations probably don't make anything because they only actually count a few stations, which alter from time to time, then make an average for the whole country and pay out that way.

A band who only gets played on college radio or smaller underground shows (harder faster for example) probably do not get paid.

oh, But it's bad label managment
again, there are a lot of people who think publishing royalties from radio are like a key to a giant vault of money.

yes that was me. i didn't mean to post anonymously.

but lets talk about this:
I have papers here from Wonderdrug. I believe it was Tree that was played on this skateboarding TV show in ESPN. It aired 6 times and it made $250. you split that half with the band you're still out some money. If it continues to happen you eventually make money. Radio pay is less yes, but you still get something.

and secondly you have no other comments besides calling me a metalcore kid or making fun of a couple bands that he knows i like is pretty cheap. I like bits of everything. You can put words in my mouth and assume things all you want. I wasn't making fun of you or your label. I simply said if you want money for things such as that you have to get songs published. It's common for TV stations to ask to use songs for free. If you say no they go on to another label who will say yes because they took the time, money, and effort into registering with BMI or ASCAP. If you're songs are published you make money from the song playing and the TV stations know that so they used that to their advantage. Don't bitch about being screwed over when that's what is the norm in the business and you just don't understand how that all works.

im not sticking up for mtv or dissing not common. that's just the way things in the music industry fucking work. plain and simple.

but i do agree, that it is shitty that the bands go without credit.

It's not necessarily up to Joe to act as publisher for his bands, they should do it themselves in fact, though obviously let Joe off the hook on mechanical royalties haha... Even if your songs are not registered through BMI or ASCAP, you are still entitled to the benefits of music publishing, all they really do is collect for radio and club play, synch licenses for TV and movies are negotiated and dealt with between the publisher and studio, so I don't believe, for example in the case of TREE on ESPN, that royalties for the multiple plays were paid for via BMI/ASCAP performance royalties, but rather simply from ESPN to Wonderdrug/Ken's publishing company. I'm not 100% certain on this... But yeah, unless you're seeing lots of radio airplay, registering w/ASCAP and BMI is rather useless.

no those were the BMI royalties. They bought the license for the all the wonderdrug songs they wanted to use off of Ken for 1,000.

1) I like it when we talk about interesting stuff, like this. I'm learning something, whihc is cool.

2) Shouldn't MTV change their name? The dairy industry tried sueing the soy milk industry saying that using the word "Milk" in the name is misleading because it's not what we commonly think of as milk, which is from animals. Well MTV doesn't have very much to do with music more than any other station these days, so can we still say they are a "Music" television? Or maybe I'm just being weird.

Taste:

1)completely agree
2)i definitely see where you're coming from, not wierd at all

Attenmyrequiem:

We all see what you mean with regards to money, but not giving a band credit or listing a source where credit can be obtained (mtv.com for example) is completely rediculous and unacceptable. There is absolutely no point for allowing them to use songs if there is no credit, especially when you are not being paid. There is no benefit, none at all.

who even reads the credits anyway? and now the credits roll so fast and usually only half the screen that you can't read a fucking thing anyway. so if you were trying to find that band you heard in the program you better be recording it and own video editing material. you're fucked even if they do credit the band. the ONLY reason any band would want music on tv is for the synch royalties. (unless you have an actual video or some type of interview where you can promote yourself). This is why my only arguements were about money.

retzam said:

blankblank

For a band on an indie label, exposure is much more beneficial then money.

retzam said:


dude, it all depends on how you go about it. exposure just doesn't happen. if someone is dishing out money for your song, you can use that to expose yourself. Hell even if it's $25. that's gas to get to a show man. ya know? it doesn't matter what order shit gets done as long as it does. bands should take every fucking opertunity they can get to get money, exposer, etc if they're trying to make it. So, my question is... why the fuck not?

Alright, man, I guess you're right. Money is exposure when you break it all down (and spend it right), but I still don't understand how this is bad label management. Joe was not offered credit, so there is no exposure there, and he was not offered money, so there is again no exposure there. I think by denying this offer (if you can even call it that) he demonstrated sensible label management. But again, I completely see where you're coming from on the connection of money and exposure.

retzam said:


yeah, but he was complaining about not getting money for the songs. Labels should be prepared for such instances by publishing their bands' music. He could have started his own publishing company (to get himself half of the money made) and published his bands music or the bands could have done it themselves since joe didn't have the option (which i would say is bad band management, but it was joe complaining not a band). MTV is not at fault for not giving him money for the music; it's really his fault for not publishing the bands songs since it is common practice for tv shows to be like "can we use your music for free and you can make money from the synch royalties?" Managing a label is preparing yourself for what comes ahead. The big guys in the industry aren't ethical, they do it the legal way. Be ready for that shit!

he was also complaining about not being credited for it, but if you were gonna get a check in the mail a few months later you would have let them use it too.

Ohhh, ok. I see where you're coming from. I guess that's the biggest difference between a big label and an indie label.

I did tell MTV if they credited the songs they could use whatever they wanted, but she said she couldn't guarantee they would be credited.

Go start your own label and I will give you the MTV ladies email address.

why would I? the music industry is saturated with labels and too much corporation. that's why it's fucking dying and why people can barely make any money from it. why would I spend money to hurt something I enjoy so much?

There are way too many labels and not enough good bands. soon enough the ones that aren't doing well will be weeded out and everything will be good again.

I have a basic knowledge of most aspects of the music industry and the feild i chose was recording and I will continue with that.