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returntothepit >> discuss >> Band Advice by FuckIsMySignature on Mar 3,2010 1:24pm
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toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 1:24pm
So heres the sittuation... Capitol Records is interested in my blues rock band Hard No. 9 but they want us to record a 3 song demo (despite the fact that we just finished a full length recording) in Cleveland with a producer of their choice. This would be fine but they want us to cover the charge - 4500.00 plus travel expenses. At first I figured it would be a straight up bad idea to plunge us into debt (we'd have to take out a loan or put it on a credit card) over something that doesnt even have a guarantee of resulting in a deal but this could be an opportunity that doesnt come around again. On the fence... any suggestions or advice would be awesome ..thanks.





toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 1:27pm
Bite the head off of a number 9 in the exec's office, it worked for Ozzy.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 1:27pm
Do it.



toggletoggle post by Slag NLI at Mar 3,2010 1:34pm
Nothing about that situation sounds good. At all.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 1:36pm
ya i'm not thrilled but it is what it is



toggletoggle post by in 3, 2, 1... at Mar 3,2010 1:37pm
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained..."



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 1:41pm
i guess at the very least we'd get a professional recording out of it that we could shop to other labels



toggletoggle post by josh_hates_you  at Mar 3,2010 1:44pm
pay to play



toggletoggle post by josh_hates_you  at Mar 3,2010 1:44pm
sell tickets or you are a pussy



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Mar 3,2010 1:44pm
never a good thing when they won't pay.
get your jew lawyer to look at the contract.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 1:45pm
Give them the Hard No. 9 if they fuck you over.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 1:46pm
now hiring jew lawyers



toggletoggle post by slard no. 9 at Mar 3,2010 1:52pm
do it but insist they hire cleveland hookers to blow you



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 1:57pm
LOL @ "Slard no. 9"



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 1:57pm
hahaha thats def a legit expense



toggletoggle post by reimroc at Mar 3,2010 1:59pm edited Mar 3,2010 2:07pm
Smoke weed, fuck bitches, play hard rock, get signed to capitol records, tour, smoke weed, fuck bitches, get std, descend in to drug addiction, have vh1 special about it hosted by sabastian bach, scott ian and matt pinfield, smoke more weed, write memoir, cite rttp in bibliography, win at life.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 2:11pm
that about sums it up



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 2:18pm
be in Anvil movie part II



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:21pm
Most labels nowadays do that anyhow. They will charge you to distribute your stuff. It's the only way they're guaranteed to make money. If you think you could make it back on a tour through merch sales and what not, then I would do it. $4500 is a lot but it could be worse.

Also, don't be afraid to talk to them about covering your own ass. You have something they want and you can use that to your advantage if they want you to sign with them.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 2:23pm
get signed, fish out your hotel window then fuck groupies with said fish or David the Gnome



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 2:25pm
Sacreligion said[orig][quote]

Also, don't be afraid to talk to them about covering your own ass. You have something they want and you can use that to your advantage if they want you to sign with them.


please elaborate?



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 2:26pm
David the Gnome is one quality cartoon. I recorded some episodes on VHS I believe.



toggletoggle post by sixstringcarnage   at Mar 3,2010 2:26pm
do it dude... no regrets.



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Mar 3,2010 2:26pm
where's the "fight david the gnome or you're a pussy" picture when you need it?



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 2:28pm
3 2 1 Contact!!11111!!!!!



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:28pm
I wouldn't go in demanding ridiculous things but it's not out of line to ask for some assistance with those recording costs. It's also possible that they're seeing how self-reliant you guys are and it could be beneficial to do it yourselves. Do you know what they plan to do with the demo? It seems a little weird to me that you guys just finished an album but they need to hear the same songs recorded somewhere else.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 2:33pm
well we are working in conjunction with a management company and they are acting as a liason i believe. i think they work with Buck Cherry and someother bands like that.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:33pm
Do it just for the opportunity to kick Josh Todd in the balls.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 2:34pm
FIMS blues band has almost reached Saint to Sinners level of fame.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:36pm
Seriously, though...they must think you guys are profitable enough to work with and if you bend over and take it in the ass this early who knows what type of BS they'd sneak into a contract if you ended up being offered one. You don't want to be one of those bands that jumped at their first opportunity and ended up owing them like $20,000 after your first tour.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 2:37pm
get Bova to record leads or doomed to obscurity is U



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:37pm edited Mar 3,2010 2:38pm
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
FIMS blues band has almost reached Saint to Sinners level of fame.


Needs moar nominations to be nominated for a chance to be considered to be nominated for a Grammy nomination.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:38pm
Nom nom nom nom nom.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 2:39pm
haha i agree ... i'm just gonna keep gathering as much info about it as i can before we make an informed decision.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 2:41pm edited Mar 3,2010 2:41pm
I'd talk to your management company as much as possible and try to gauge how much they are looking after you guys or just trying to make a name for themselves. It's their job to make sure you don't get fucked.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 2:44pm
maybe if i get Bova to record some shreds for us they will finance the whole thing. you cant beat that kind of street cred



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at Mar 3,2010 2:46pm
Sounds shady to me. If they were covering the recording and expected you to cover travel expenses and lodging, that's one thing, but for them to not even put anything into the deal sounds like raviolis.



toggletoggle post by I_am_not_me   at Mar 3,2010 3:00pm
dreadkill said[orig][quote]
where's the "fight david the gnome or you're a pussy" picture when you need it?





toggletoggle post by thirdknuckle  at Mar 3,2010 3:02pm
Tell them you can't afford it right now, you just spent your money on a full length recording that you are going to shop to labels. If they want you, they will spend the 4,500, which is NOTHING to Capitol Records. If they don't think you're worth spending that tiny sum of money on, the deal you'd get would probably be horrible.



toggletoggle post by metal_church101  at Mar 3,2010 3:06pm
1) Fuck the chic singer from Saints to Sinner with a rake

2) Hire Sully from Godsmack as a band leader and let him make all the decisions for you.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 3:18pm
3) Now Go Away

4) ???

5) profit!



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Mar 3,2010 3:23pm
DestroyYouAlot said[orig][quote]
3) Now Go Away

4) ???

5) I STAND ALONE!


Fixed.



toggletoggle post by josh_hates_you  at Mar 3,2010 3:28pm
thirdknuckle said[orig][quote]
Tell them you can't afford it right now, you just spent your money on a full length recording that you are going to shop to labels. If they want you, they will spend the 4,500, which is NOTHING to Capitol Records. If they don't think you're worth spending that tiny sum of money on, the deal you'd get would probably be horrible.


yeah that.



toggletoggle post by Snli at Mar 3,2010 3:39pm
Tell them you have other label interests and they are paying for everything.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 3:47pm
thats a good idea



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 5:01pm
SRSLY Tom, I know we have vastly different ideas about music so take this with a grain of salt; beyond that I think you're a good dude, so here goes: this sounds like a fucking ripoff. Interscope is willing to invest the price of a few emails and probably some stationery on you guys and you're supposed to pay upwards of 5-6 grand (after air fare) for the possibility of maybe being considered? You already fucking paid for your record, you already put the time in, let them court you if they're so interested. You'll be pretty much able to gauge their actual interest based on how far they'll go to meet you in the middle. So far they're just offering you the opportunity to go way into debt to get your demo (that they haven't paid a dime for) thrown in the pile with all the other bands that took the same offer. Don't go around with your fucking hat out; even if they do take you up on it you'll get the shitty entry-level deal at best. Tell'em to get at you when they're serious about it if you believe in H#9; hate to say it but otherwise you kinda deserve whatever you get.

[/2 cents]



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 5:08pm
Thanks Steve the suggestion is much appreciated and I agree with alot of what you and others on here have said. We're gonna try to negotiate something with them but I dont see us moving forward with it unless they make some vast concessions. I'd much rather put that kind of dough into recording another demo or EP (for probably alot less) to shop to other labels on our own terms. I'm really impressed with the amount of useful information this thread has generated. you guys have outdone yourselves.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 5:10pm
That looks more like 3 cents to me.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 3,2010 5:13pm
Is this the first offer of this nature you guys have gotten? If so, treat Interscope like a training girlfriend. Treat'em like shit, get what you can out of'em, learn a litle technique and then go bang hot labels with confidence. (Not even kidding.)



toggletoggle post by bloblovesmusic at Mar 3,2010 5:15pm
wow, a serious thread on RTTP? It's more likely than you think!

I have no suggestions or advice to give that hasn't been suggested before, but awesome that you've gotten some interest (even if it is a ripoff or what not). You guys rule!



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 5:17pm
Well have a foot in the door at Sony BMG too cause my singer's dad works for a internet radio station and is friends with one of their A&R reps...we jsut havent really heard anything back on it lately. i wasnt aware Interscope was a division of Capitol records. I guess that would make sense though. As far as i know weve just been dealing with the Parent company.

oh and lol at training gf metaphor



toggletoggle post by pam   at Mar 3,2010 5:35pm
Don't do it. I agree on telling them you just spent all your money recording a full length and you've got no interest in plunging yourselves into debt, in a shitty economy, no doubt taking time off work to record and possibly risking said jobs, just for the privileged of being CONSIDERED. Be polite and thank them for taking the time and see if they come at you with another offer.

or gtfo.



toggletoggle post by Archaeon at Mar 3,2010 5:48pm
I'd advise against this. Unless you sign a right of first refusal (basically saying that eventually you'll figure out a contract) Capitol records has no responsibility towards you what so ever. What they're doing is almost insulting and if they don't try to assist you now i can guarantee they will offer little support to you as an artist.

If anyone has more question about stuff like this hit me up because this what I'm at school for.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 5:52pm
thanks everyone.. i'll prob have more info and more questions on this soon. i'm doin like usually do with info threads like is filtering all the useful info into a word doc for reference.



toggletoggle post by AndrewBastard at Mar 3,2010 6:00pm
Wouldnt it cost way less and be much more reasonable for them to fly their producer to YOU as opposed to flying a whole band plus gear to them?

Plus you just recorded a full length. They will get the idea where you're coming from when they hear that right? Tell em to bugger off!



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 3,2010 6:15pm
i guess its because the producer lives in Cleveland and that his studio. i'm sure they have some sweetheart deal that lowers their costs to do it this way.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalystnli at Mar 3,2010 6:34pm
sounds like a fucking rad opportunity, but i'd be VERY wary putting up that kind of money. about 9 years ago, i was working with a friend who was managing a band from Dallas and we drove down while they were working with a "name" producer at some bitchin huge studio where stevie ray and panfuckingoddamntera recorded shit. they ended up spending something like $16,000 on this demo for i wanna say warner bros. and they didn't get picked up and were out their loot.

if you can get the label to pay maybe half, it could be a pretty rad experience, though. music industry DEFINITELY isn't what it used to be.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 3,2010 6:37pm
this person above doesn't use capital letters. impostor Ryan is impostor.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Mar 3,2010 6:40pm
Archaeon said[orig][quote]
What they're doing is INCREDIBLY insulting


Fixed.



toggletoggle post by PHILIP ANSELMO at Mar 3,2010 6:58pm
You put lipstick on uh rattlesnake and you think that mothufuckers goanuh KISS you? Ah been lied to, worshipped and left to die my friend.Take back yoah will and do it yoahself.HOUSECORE ain't nevuh goahnnuh lie tuh ME? You unnuhstan'?



toggletoggle post by DARREL LANCE ABBOTT at Mar 3,2010 11:26pm
im dead.



toggletoggle post by VINCENT PAUL ABBOT at Mar 4,2010 12:43am
im fat and bad at drums



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 4,2010 12:51am
UPDATE:

So based on new information i think we are gonna end up pulling the trigger on this. The management company's president is gonna cover half of the cost out of pocket and only expects us to recoup if we get a deal (apparently he believes in us that much.) The demo needs to sound pro because it's going straight to the desk of the Capital Records president. So given that, we can cover half of the remaining cost with band funds already set aside and now only need to put up a grand out of pocket. Split that 4 ways and now we are talking something reasonable. We are still not guaranteed a deal out of this but we'll end up with a pro demo either way and a chance to shop it along a Showcase performance. I feel alot better about this now and think the risk is worth the reward.

*fingers crossed*



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Mar 4,2010 12:58am
Fuck yeah. That' rad. Best of luck.



toggletoggle post by blessed offal at Mar 4,2010 12:58am
goatcatalyst said[orig][quote]
Fuck yeah. That' rad. Best of luck.


only replacing the letter s with an apostrophe is real



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Mar 4,2010 1:01am
Trut'



toggletoggle post by blessed offal at Mar 4,2010 1:03am
fuc' yea' ma'. o' b' th' wa' di' yo' ge' m' messag'?



toggletoggle post by ftgn at Mar 4,2010 1:11am
.?.;



toggletoggle post by blesse' offa' at Mar 4,2010 1:14am
' don' ge' i'



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Mar 4,2010 1:23am
Brenoritvrezorkre



toggletoggle post by blesse‘ offa‘ at Mar 4,2010 1:25am
ryan when are you and bill gonna come down again and get hammered so i can sleep on the floor of your hotel room even though i live right down the street?



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Mar 4,2010 2:15am
That was a goddamn good time. I was hoping we would be going to see Kreator in Worcester on Friday, but I don't think either of us can make it. No Visible Scars is releasing tapes from both Ipsissimus and Nightbitch soon, so I'm hoping both will be playing up there in the next few months. We'll rage soon. I wanna bring Witch Tomb and Blessed Offal to CT when Ipsissimus is back in gear and I'm booking shit. Got some other type shit up my sleeve as well.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Mar 4,2010 2:22am
Naked piss rituals.



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney nli at Mar 4,2010 3:37am
I sure some big hotshot from Capitol Records doesn't try to sign you away from me FIMS, otherwise Garth and I will have to get in all sorts of crazy shenanigans involving Alice Cooper and a trip to Milwaukee to win you back.



toggletoggle post by blue  at Mar 4,2010 3:39am
BobNOMAAMRooney%20nli said[orig][quote]
Milwaukee


which means 'the good land.'



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney nli at Mar 4,2010 3:43am
blue said[orig][quote]
BobNOMAAMRooney%20nli said[orig][quote]
Milwaukee


which means 'the good land.'


ZANG!



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Mar 4,2010 4:28am
DOES THIS GUY KNOW HOW TO PARTY OR WHAT!?



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney nli at Mar 4,2010 4:34am
I'd never done a crazy thing in my life before that night. Why is it, that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic; yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder?



toggletoggle post by ouchdrummer   at Mar 4,2010 8:20am
Tom, the thing is that they have a particular sound that they think you'd be marketable with, and they believe it's with that producer. Check him out, listen to his stuff, see if you WANT to have that sound. If you do, make sure you get a contract (that you have a lawyer look at) that covers everything they will do for you after you have the recording done. Don't just do it if they say they will probably deal with you after you work with that guy. 3 songs for 4500 is steep for an unsigned band. It's real steep. You can do about a week at some very high level studios for that. And you WOULD finish more than 3 songs in that week, as long as you're all prepared that is.



toggletoggle post by BlackoutRick at Mar 4,2010 8:31am
Why can't their producer come to you? Play hardball with these guys.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Mar 4,2010 8:38am
Autotuned H#9 demo FTW



toggletoggle post by The_Rooster  at Mar 4,2010 10:42am
FuckIsMySignature said[orig][quote]
UPDATE: The management company's president is gonna cover half of the cost out of pocket and only expects us to recoup if we get a deal.


GET THAT SHIT IN WRITING!



Also, good luck. I hope this works out for ya'll.



toggletoggle post by The_Rooster  at Mar 4,2010 10:43am
Who's the producer, BTW?



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 4,2010 11:57am
Ya we are definitely getting everything in writing and seeking a lawyer to help us look over contracts and shit.



toggletoggle post by BlackoutRick at Mar 4,2010 12:03pm
Hopefully this turns out well for yall. Capital is fuckin HUGE.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 4,2010 12:12pm
ya i guess the guy from the management company found and helped sign bands like Matchbox 20, Collective Soul, and Buck Cherry (while not exactly rttp friendly bands - cant deny they became big names).



toggletoggle post by BlackoutRick at Mar 4,2010 12:15pm
I'll take Collective Soul out of the three. Even though Rob Thomas is wicked stoner.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Mar 4,2010 12:16pm
fims will be a future millionaire and founding member of a blues dark ambient metal band with ska influences



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Mar 4,2010 12:20pm
my advice to you, start drinking heavily.



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Mar 4,2010 12:45pm
start?



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 4,2010 12:54pm
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
fims will be a future millionaire and founding member of a blues dark ambient metal band with ska influences



HAHAHAHA



toggletoggle post by blessed offal at Mar 4,2010 1:14pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
my advice to you, start drinking heavily.


this



toggletoggle post by metal_church101  at Mar 4,2010 1:44pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
my advice to you, start drinking heavily.


Yeti said[orig][quote]
start?





toggletoggle post by DYA is HST at Mar 4,2010 2:17pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
my advice to you, start drinking heavily.


Here, eat these peanuts. If you've never been through a transmat beam before you've probably lost some salt and protein.



toggletoggle post by V-190 at Mar 4,2010 2:22pm
This oft-referenced article is from the early '90s, and originally appeared in Maximum Rock 'n' Roll magazine. While some of the information and figures listed here are dated, it is still a useful and informative article. And no, we don't know how to reach Steve Albini.

-Negativland

www.negativland.com



The Problem With Music
by Steve Albini

Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke". And he does of course.

Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A & R" rep who can present a comfortable face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire." because historically, the A & R staff would select artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly. These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave.

Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well. There are several reasons A & R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences. The A & R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably even believes it. When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast. By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A & R guy, the band will say to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he was hired.

These A & R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on. The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little memo, is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band signs it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength. These letters never have any terms of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another laborer or even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.

One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all," A & R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises [something he did with similar effect to another well-known band], and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A & R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it. The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity. There's this band. They're pretty ordinary, but they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a distribution company, and they have another two albums owed to the label. They're a little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so they can have some security you know, get some good equipment, tour in a proper tour bus -- nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the hard work. To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He takes his cut, sure, but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed then it's money well spent. Anyways, it doesn't cost them anything if it doesn't work. 15% of nothing isn't much! One day an A & R scout calls them, says he's 'been following them for a while now, and when their manager mentioned them to him, it just "clicked." Would they like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with his label? Wow. Big Break time. They meet the guy, and y'know what -- he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands. He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them, to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible with the right attitude.

They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they wrote out and signed on the spot. The A & R guy was full of great ideas, even talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of the question-he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don Fleming for $30,000 plus three points. Even that's a little steep, so maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's band. He only wants three points. Or they can have just anybody record it (like Warton Tiers, maybe-- cost you 5 or 7 grand] and have Andy Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2 points. It was a lot to think about. Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides, they already signed the deal memo. He must have been serious about wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label himself.

Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster Children-- without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's recoupable out of royalties. Well, they get the final contract, and it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe than sorry and they turn it over to a lawyer--one who says he's experienced in entertainment law and he hammers out a few bugs. They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's seen a lot of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be great royalty: 13% [less a 1O% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were only getting 12% less 10? Whatever. The old label only wants 50 grand, an no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go. They're signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English. The first year's advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a quarter million, just for being in a rock band! Their manager thinks it's a great deal, especially the large advance. Besides, he knows a publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and even give them an advance of 20 grand, so they'll be making that money too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody really knows where all the money comes from, but the lawyer can look that contract over too. Hell, it's free money. Their booking agent is excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can maybe average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew, buy some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for everybody In the band and crew, they're actually about the same cost. Some bands like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab use buses on their tours even when they're getting paid only a couple hundred bucks a night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night. It'll be worth it. The band will be more comfortable and will play better.

The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company to pay them an advance on T-shirt sales! ridiculous! There's a gold mine here! The lawyer Should look over the merchandising contract, just to be safe. They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are taken and everybody looks thrilled. The label picked them up in a limo. They decided to go with the producer who used to be in Letterman's band. He had these technicians come in and tune the drums for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a slew of expensive old "vintage" microphones. Boy, were they "warm." He even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very "punchy," yet "warm." All that hard work paid off. With the help of a video, the album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million copies! Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are: These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound. income is bold and underlined, expenses are not.

Advance: $ 250,000
Manager's cut: $ 37,500
Legal fees: $ 10,000
Recording Budget: $ 150,000
Producer's advance: $ 50,000
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew [3]: $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]:
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]:
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000
 Net royalty: $ -14,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Record company income:


Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.


Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25

The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys. Some of your friends are probably already this fucked.

Steve Albini is an independent and corporate rock record producer most widely known for having produced Nirvana's "In Utero".



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Mar 4,2010 3:23pm
oh my. if that doesn't rain diarrhea all over anyone's parade, nothing will.



toggletoggle post by Alexecutioner at Mar 4,2010 3:41pm
Sacreligion said[orig][quote]
I wouldn't go in demanding ridiculous things but it's not out of line to ask for some assistance with those recording costs.


tell them you want a giant baby bottle and a football helmet filled with cottage cheese or no deal



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Mar 4,2010 4:05pm edited Mar 4,2010 4:05pm
V-190 said[orig][quote]
Albini Article


Hah i showed that article to my singer and he'd already read it... i think i read that in my only semester of college too. At least being aware of these things might help us avoid traps and pitfalls.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Mar 4,2010 4:35pm
I read that article many years ago myself but it's still a good read today.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 9,2010 10:15am
Leaving this weekend. Gonna play a show out there too. Psyched.

*fingers crossed*



toggletoggle post by mOe  at Apr 9,2010 11:03am
My band is in a similar situation, but luckily for us we have a pretty good engineer who's willing to record us now, if he gets cut into our deal. Also, our A&R guy is an old friend of our singer, so the likelyhood of him fucking us is slim. He talked us out of the original deal of the label paying for everything and then TAKING everything.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 9,2010 12:02pm
ya theres alot of room for shit to go wrong in a million different directions but i think the risk is worth it. gonna be a fun vacation regardless of what happens. gonna try to hit the Hall of Fame and cheap ass Indians game while i'm out there (apparently a seat behind home plate is like $25!)



toggletoggle post by bloblovesmusic at Apr 9,2010 12:04pm
good luck dude! We'll miss you!



toggletoggle post by metal_church101  at Apr 9,2010 2:05pm
FuckIsMySignature said[orig][quote]
Leaving this weekend. Gonna play a show out there too. Psyched.

*fingers crossed*


Good luck with that!!!




toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 9,2010 2:06pm
thanks dudes. my highest priority will trying to not get arrested.



toggletoggle post by blue  at Apr 9,2010 2:20pm
FuckIsMySignature said[orig][quote]
thanks dudes. my highest priority will trying to not get molested.


Fixed



toggletoggle post by metal_church101  at Apr 9,2010 2:21pm edited Apr 9,2010 2:21pm
blue said[orig][quote]
FuckIsMySignature said[orig][quote]
thanks dudes. my highest priority will trying to not get molested.


Fixed


Ha!



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 9,2010 2:22pm
cleveland hookers ftw



toggletoggle post by metal_church101  at Apr 9,2010 2:25pm
FuckIsMySignature said[orig][quote]
cleveland steamers ftw


Fixed



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 9,2010 2:25pm
do they throw those in for the standard price?



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 13,2010 10:14pm
been here for just over48 hours and i've already seen one narsty barfight and some angry old black woman smash up some dudes track with a hammer outside our hotel room. also every one out in this area is either fat creepy or fat and creepy. struggling to find attractive women out here but havent really ventured into the city much.

as for the recording it is going really well and just finished tracking drums for the day. studio is pro and producer knows his shit. not crazy about spending 10 hours ripping apart our tunes so they fit a comfy 4 minute radio format but they are shaping up niceley regardless. more updates soon for those interested.



toggletoggle post by boblovesmusic   at Apr 18,2010 2:56pm
I don't think you should go, it'll be bad for you.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 18,2010 3:03pm
ya your right



toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 18,2010 3:07pm
Alexecutioner said[orig][quote]
Sacreligion said[orig][quote]
I wouldn't go in demanding ridiculous things but it's not out of line to ask for some assistance with those recording costs.


tell them you want a giant baby bottle and a football helmet filled with cottage cheese or no deal


Naked pictures of Bea Arthur or GTFO



toggletoggle post by sigh at Apr 18,2010 6:01pm
Use the $4,500 to start your own label/distribution. Fuck capital records. Release the full length you already have on your own and use it to get similar bands interested in your label. More satisfying and you don't work for the man!



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Apr 19,2010 2:09am
or we'll just keep doin what we are doin cause thats workin pretty well.



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