http://emofag.net/2008/01/26/interview-with-shamaatae-of-arckanum/#more-402

Any time I hear the name Shamaatae I think of a grossly overweight black girl.

I guess he doesn't think Johan fits the bill.

Worshipping nature and wanting to destroy it at the same time does not make sense to me... Or maybe it does.

Nietszche- Will to power, ubermensh concept
Ragnar Redbeard- Might is Right
Crowley- True Will, Magick
Paganism
Gnosticism

all these are part of this anti cosmic philosophy

The Ash concept= Good. Bad....I'm the guy with the gun.

CNV said:

gnostics do not worship nature, certainly not in the way most pagans do
if they worship something you'd call nature, it's a nature that secular people know nothing about

What I meant was Arckanum has some sort of reverance for nature being that they use a lot of these sorts of sounds in their music... He has an obvious penchant for things like the woods.

It would seem to me that if you really hated creation and this world then that sort of reverance would not exist.

Glad I could clear that up for you Dur

and archeypes like Pan and Loki are pagan concepts

why thank you
as i'm sure you know, it's difficult to resist the temptation to use extremely vague language when discussing things of this nature, so I appreciate you coming back to clear it up

other than that little semantic (spellings a bit different than what we usually argue about!) nitpick, I agree with you. And yes, archetypes like Pan and Loki are pagan concepts, and faiths like Chaos-Gnosticism are mish-mashes of totally seperate ancient ideologies that tend to give birth to a lot of hypocrisy, but juxtaposing things that don't make sense (or do they?) is sort of part of the fun of satanism, isn't it?

Naw, I am pretty direct and to the point... I will leave the vague statements to the french black metal bands. LOL, man I crack myself up.

Like I've stated before, I think some of Shammaataes ideas and that of MLO are all too vague. I just enjoy his aural landscapes. Seems like Shamaatae may be a bit spiritually immature. I'm sure he'd argue that statement but, I just think these alternative dark philosophies that seem so popular today are lot of wasted time and energy (and I'm sure you would argue that statement also Paul). I've also noticed Shaamatae seems to talk highly of his family in a few interviews (whom have also participated in his recordings)....Do you suppose they pat him on the back and kiss him on the cheek for wishing an end to their world?
It just doesn't seem to real to me. Just an esoteric facade. Its the classic reason why people take up religion. Its a vehicle to empower those who otherwise feel inadequate and powerless (but I guess not always, cause some people just actually enjoy getting on there knees to revere their god/gods/master/whatev like some crazy masochist)
I say whats so wrong with being powerless. How can you feel nothing but powerless at the tearing hands of nature and the curse of the human condition.
Anyways, I'm just ranting like a derelict bum at this point so, I'm gonna go refresh my coffee and take a whiz.
Did I mention I really like the music? I'm listening to Kostogher as I write this.

Stay real niggaz!

Troll said:

i gathered the same thing. i said this in another thread, but his statements resemble a 15 year old's who just read the Waldenbooks version of the Necronomicon, and thinks he is a chaotic evil mastermind.

Dar said:

What they would reply to you is that even though these deities come from different currents/ideologies, many actually share the same essence (for example, Kali from the Hindu Tradition and Lillith). The key here is the essence beyond the forms (i.e. the 'semantic' aspect of the whole deal). From what I gather, Shammatea here is taking the Rokkr pantheon and linking its essence to that of the 218 current of anti-cosmos.

Also, the history of religions shows that all religions have drawn influence from one or several other religions. Practically all all world religions emanate directly or indirectly from Vedic religion and/or Persian dualism. Very few are those who just start something completely new and different from scratch.

Troll said:


All concepts related to occultism, religion, spiritual matters are, in the Western civilization, inherently 'vague' because they are not directly perceptible. Shammaatea does not write entire paragraphs in his interviews to describe his philosophies, but anti-cosmic gnosticism isn't that 'simple'. Check this site out for more information (but not complete) : http://www.templeoftheblacklight.net/main.html . If you're interested in Gnosticism, I can also recommend a few good books on the topic.

By the way, I'm not saying I'm a firm believer in the TOTBL, however I do find their approach quite interesting; I'm just trying to shed some light on some questions/issues brought up here.

http://www.metahistory.org

a good source for gnostic mysticism, and mythos

Martin said:

I can clearly see where your sentiments lay so I'm not sure if you'll care to hear this but like I said, "it's just an esoteric facade".
Its that old elitist "only the few can understand/ those with the eyes worthy to see" bullshit and I don't buy it.
I see nothing but the gray between the black and white in this world, It makes up so much of who I am.....And yet still, I'm not trying to sell no fuckin' books or ideas on my perspective and philosophy (not even in my music).....Quite simply, cause I am truly a cynical one man misanthropic motherfuckin' hate brigade. Maybe I should be more vocal with my ideas and knock down some spiritually starving pawns on my quest to fuckin' nowheresville just like MLO or any other alternative pop cult out there.
You may not be a firm believer Martin and for what its worth I commend you, but no amount of reading on theis is gonna convince me this shit makes any sense or benefits any individual....And isn't that the point of spiritual belief and religion?
Anyways, I'm thoroughly intoxicated and this took me forever to type.
I can't wait to see your "witty and informative" reply through my fuckin glossy hungover eyes first thing in the morning...
....If I wake up.

Skål! För magikern inom!

Where did I say that? Crack + beer isn't always a good mix, you know? I just wanted to be the devil's advocate for a minute or two and possibly, just possibly, make some people here look at the bigger picture. In the end, whether you love or hate it is pretty much oblivious to me.



Good idea. But then again, a 2-3 page book about your 'deep and profound' philosophy probably wouldn't appeal to many publishers.



No shit? I pardon the incoherence of your message. You seem to think that I am trying to 'preach' something here or that my goal is to 'convert' you to some belief or whatnot. If that's what I were trying to achieve, it wouldn't be on some forum I found by chance that I'd be doing this. It\'s funny to see that you claim to know what my 'beliefs' are based on a few lines, nice assumption.

You can put down your dukes man. I wasn't trying to attack you.

hahaha!

Clearly this conversation will go nowhere.

I'm over it.

CNV said:

That was funny.

Yeti said:

......Like Professor Chaos perhaps?

haha precisely. the only time i can see "anti-cosmic something of death" and not laugh is in relation to Dissection. otherwise its just silly.

Martin said:

Hello Martin! I'd be interested to hear your recommendations for books on the topic

Aw Troll, your drunken narcissism chased him off!

Maybe he's casting a curse with the diabolical blood runes or cursed cuneiform cast in clay.

Gamla lombungr, sugandi toti tik modr!

Dar said:

Actually, I own a pub and see/deal with such cases on a daily basis. The Internet isn't my life, after all I've got to cast a few spells in the meantime hehe.

As for books on gnosticism, here you go:

- The Gnostics by Jacques Lacarrière (If you can read French I suggest you pick up the original French version 'Les Gnostiques' because Lacarrière's writing style is difficult to translate)

- The Gnostic Religion by Hans Jonas (more 'scholarly' than the one above)

Sure that covers the gnostics, but has way different ideas than the chao gnostics.

All the word Gnostic means anyways is Knowledge or Gnosticism which is the pursute thereof. There is really no connection to MLO type philosophy and The Gnostics which is based in Christian theology.
So why bring up the Gnostics when we're talking about Chaosophy and TOTBL. Which yes, they do use a few deities from old Hebrew and Christian scripture but its far from Gnostic train of thought/philosophy.

Tell me what pub you run so I can piss yer taps.

you're talkin to yourself Troll :P

thanks martin, something i'm always interested in learning more about

Gnosticism is not based in christian theosophy... Some christians might have ripped it off like they ripped off paganism.

The concept of Abraxas is not a christian concept...

The best interpretation of gnosticism comes from Carl Jung. If you want some real gnosis check him out... He ain't some crack pot cuttin up cats.

Be careful about giving info to Dar. He is a zionist operative from Israel... Beware of the flem wads.

from what I know, gnosticism is an umbrella term that covers a lot of different sects...some of them (post christ) based in christian theosophy, some (before christ) not

The roots of gnosticism are pre christian... All your hebrew brethren ripped it off. Bwahahahaha!

Dar, tell us gentiles of the kingdom of Zion...

Dar said:


Aww...Idn't dat cute.

Should've title this thread "The Occult Friends Network"

haha
I love you guys
that girl on the right in the pikachu picture looks kinda like me when I was little

Dar, go read your talmud like a good yiddish girl, Bwahahahahaha!!! Man, I really do crack myself up.

CNV said:

Aww, come on, everyone knows true orthodox chaos lords cut up squirrels after mom tells them they can't borrow the car.

AMIDOINITRITE?!?

i need a suit like that.

Troll said:

Wow. Is your goal to look like an idiot or was getting through High School that hard? Gnosticism is at the core of TOTBL's beliefs, but that appears to have gone way above your head. Why do you think your beloved Arckanum will name their album 'antikosmos'? Here's a hint: there is a strong link with gnostic belief. To summarize that whole school of though into a 'Quest for knowledge' started by christians shows how much insight you have in the subject.

My bar is in Québec, Canada, ever heard of that place? Come over anytime, you'll probably get to learn a thing or two.

What is the name of the bar in Quebec?

Le Kudsak, located in Sherbrooke, QC.

http://www.kudsak.com

Fill my pockets with money, drunkards.

oooo la la... 49 cent buffalo wings!!!!

ME WANT

CANADIAN DRINKING AND THEOLOGY DISCUSSION TRIP, GOOOOO!!!

Through the consumption of beer and buffalo wings we shall summon the Anti Cosmic gods and lay an ass whipping on the Demiurge... Blue cheese will prevail as the key factor in this Satanic opening of the gates to the current 218!!!

I'll argue us all out of existence while enjoying tasty Buffalo wings. I'll divide by zero, I don't give a fuck.

The wings are good, but honestly I've had better ones over in Montreal. The pasta dishes are the best. As for the beer, we only sell cheap commercial beer à la 'Coors Light' crap.

CANADA IS CANCELLED

Martin said:
Right, whatever man. It's like talking to brick wall. Peut-etre MOI s'entretenir en francais?
...Nah, fuck that! My french sucks!

Wow, my perception of you is totally awash.....Ahh yes, "My presumptuous occult french Canadian pub master friend" Seriously, I find it a bit of a hurdle when I read your post's now. I just can't get that Quebec accent out of my head . "Whats say you eh? Trow me down the stairs my shoes!" ~hilarious
Thats cool....I'm from New Hampshire so theres plenty of French Canadian stock down here, but your just straight up frog uh?! It's in your blood to be le pompous prique to le yankee mutherfucker. Thats cool, I get it. Your smarter than me. You win. Le Fin.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO TRY ZE MOZZARELLA STICKS?

Troll said:

Buddy, all you've been doing here is acting like a moron. Someone asked for those book recommendations, which I gave to him. Then, most likely in an attempt to stir some shit up, you start throwing some nonsense around. When you have nothing relevant to add or if you know close to nothing about the subject at hand, it wise to keep your mouth shut.

Actually, I don't have that much of an accent, but I'll take it as a compliment, thank you; it sure does work great with women in Boston.

Martin said:

Wait, is this Mike DiSalvo?

this thread is comical

Its pretty brilliant to watch people try to talk about something as if they know about it, when in all actuality the more they speak the more they show their stupidity on the subject.