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returntothepit >> discuss >> Everyone keeps talking to me about the lack of posts, terrible trolls, etc... by the_reverend on May 16,2014 3:54pm
Add To All Your Pages!
toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at May 16,2014 3:54pm
but no one is doing anything about it... if you don't like it, post.



toggletoggle post by lack of post terrible troll at May 16,2014 4:00pm
something about it.



toggletoggle post by DYA is DUAL BISMUTH YAW GATE at May 16,2014 4:10pm
FIRST



toggletoggle post by RTTP DEPT OF BROKEN FUCKING RECORDS at May 16,2014 4:13pm
NO ONE TALKS ABOUT MUSIC ANYMORE AND WHENEVER SOMEONE DOES THEY GET MADE FUN OF
*Goes on Facebook and posts videos of awful bands. Confuses liking every single band with having diverse taste in music.*

ALL ANYONE EVER POSTS ARE STUPID IMMATURE JOKES
*Realizes they've grown up to be a boring fagget with no sense of humor*

THE ONLY ONES THAT POST ARE ANONYMOUS TROLLS!! IT'S SO ANNOYING!!
*Logs out as soon as they see something they don't like to talk shit NLI. Pretends they never do.*

ANONYMOUS TROLLS ARE RUINING THE SCENE
*Listens to metal because they grew up without friends. Still has no friends because is fagget.*

WHAT DO I CARE WHAT RTTP THINKS? YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF RACIST/SEXIST ASSHOLES
*Goes on Facebook to push their own politics and views on everyone. Fagget friends don't give a shit but refuse to "Shutup Fagget" b/c they realize it's the best and most effective catch phrase ever and won't admit RTTP was right all along*

YOU TROLLS CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT. YOUR IMMATURE BULLSHIT WON'T STOP ME/MY BAND/MY PROMOTION COMPANY
*Deletes facebook/Gets kicked off show/Breaks up band/deletes everyone associated with RTTP from facebook/still gets trolled*



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at May 16,2014 4:14pm
I'm only going to post RIP threads and effect pedal threads with no responses from now on.



toggletoggle post by Alx_Casket  at May 16,2014 4:21pm
You're right, I've been seriously lacking on posting cat pictures.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 16,2014 4:30pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
but no one is doing anything about it... if you don't like it, post.


This is YOUR board. How about YOU shut off the anonymous posting because WE don't have that ability!



toggletoggle post by not_a_troll at May 16,2014 4:31pm



toggletoggle post by DYA is DUAL BISMUTH YAW GATE at May 16,2014 4:34pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
but no one is doing anything about it... if you don't like it, post.


This is YOUR board. How about YOU shut off the anonymous posting because WE don't have that ability!


Or, just post? Anon rules, ok?



toggletoggle post by DYA is DUAL BISMUTH YAW GATE at May 16,2014 4:41pm
Anonymous posting stops exactly 0 people from posting (that aren't desperately insecure in themselves, that is).



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 16,2014 4:45pm
It's not even a matter of it preventing people from posting logged in, but the quality ratio takes a severe beating when you factor in people abusing that privilege like they have been for years now. Who the fuck would honestly want to read a board where for every legit post, there's about 15 posts of the same corny, rehashed, unfunny bullshit that's in literally EVERY thread perpetuated by people that don't even have accounts here anyway?



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 16,2014 4:46pm
And really, how fucking insulting is it when the only person who actually has the ability to clamp down on this and take a real step to improve the quality ratio on this forum shovels it onto people like us who actually post not anonymously and acts like it's our problem for not posting enough?



toggletoggle post by TimRiley at May 16,2014 4:54pm
And then I post.

And the thread goes dead in....

3............

2...........

1...........





toggletoggle post by xmikex at May 16,2014 5:00pm
Anons forever. Lamp never.



toggletoggle post by Yeti at May 16,2014 5:05pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
It's not even a matter of it preventing people from posting logged in, but the quality ratio takes a severe beating when you factor in people abusing that privilege like they have been for years now. Who the fuck would honestly want to read a board where for every legit post, there's about 15 posts of the same corny, rehashed, unfunny bullshit that's in literally EVERY thread perpetuated by people that don't even have accounts here anyway?


it is a catch 22, I don't think anonymous posting should be shut off, there have been some amazing trolls. However the Thunderstool/Duncan $18 things do get really fucking annoying and kill the threads. But on the other hand I don't think there are a lot of noobs scrambling to get on this board due to the fact they are probably whiny faggots who can't take what's dished out, and a lot of people of old are long gone. As pointed out above people have Facebook where they can be whiny faggots without relentless reprisal.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at May 16,2014 5:10pm
BRING BACK REIMROC



toggletoggle post by MotleyGrue at May 16,2014 5:41pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
And really, how fucking insulting is it when the only person who actually has the ability to clamp down on this and take a real step to improve the quality ratio on this forum shovels it onto people like us who actually post not anonymously and acts like it's our problem for not posting enough?


I call bullshit on this, this is the same tired issue that comes out from time to time, bitching about the trolls. Now lets take a good look at this, who started the trolls, the older board members/the long gone ones, new trolls didn't ruin this or create it, they see how it works, and they adapt or fail trying to. If the elder board members took more responsibility with this issue and stamped out the troll problem we wouldn't be having this discussion.

In regards to new members/bands on the board, usually they get shit on pretty good, while I understand the trial by fire, is it really necessary? If they are being fagget, why not help them understand and learn to not post like one so they can contribute more to a board instead of getting run off. Sometimes this board is like an old boys club, you have to have known someone, or be in a scene to be accepted or else you are trolled hard or ignored, more so with the bands, not everybody likes the same style of music, and to be quite honest lots of bands suck, but at least they are doing something and posting about it to only get shit on.

Now look really hard at what the Rev just did, he got tired of hearing you bitch about it, he posted about it, and started a discussion, which is what everyone on here is SO hungry for, and posting about, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

There needs to be a set of new rules established by the senior members, and Rev on how this board works, and how to post, like introductions of a new poster so we might get the chance to know a little something about this person, on the grounds that he is not shit on immediately, as well as bands, and new posters/bands need to understand how this forum works/runs so they wont run away like faggets.

So to finish my train of thought before I forget(yes I am drinking and tired of typing) this is one of the last frontiers of the wild west let us try to use some fucking discretion even when we are drunk/spiteful/high/trying too hard/being informative, and take back your board one day, one post at a time.

And as far as the Shutup Fagget troll, I created that, then let it be community property for the RTTP board to use, only to see some ANON created an account for it, so to that fagget, Your Welcome.



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at May 16,2014 5:42pm
Needs moar dicks and abortions.

Seriously, people cry to you about this site? Haha, faggets.



toggletoggle post by TimRiley at May 16,2014 7:14pm edited May 16,2014 7:16pm
it's definitely a catch 22. i appreciate some of the trolls (even the ones that grill on me) but for fuck sakes, so tired of scott's relentless played-out trolling. i'd say it was funny the first 500 times... except that it wasn't. and i wouldn't necessarily know because even though i was a member of this forum in the 2005-2007 era (i forget my login), since i've returned this year, it's $18 and 10 inch dicks all day. gotta ban that prick somehow!!!



toggletoggle post by WillardScott at May 16,2014 7:49pm
ZIRCONZZZZZZZZ



toggletoggle post by RTTP DEPT OF BROKEN FUCKING RECORDS at May 16,2014 8:21pm
THINKS HE'S CONTRIBUTING AND ANYONE GIVES A SHIT
*Actually is Tim Riley*



toggletoggle post by TimRiley at May 16,2014 8:31pm
RTTP%20DEPT%20OF%20BROKEN%20FUCKING%20RECORDS said[orig][quote]
THINKS HE'S CONTRIBUTING AND ANYONE GIVES A SHIT
*Actually is Tim Riley*


Good point.



toggletoggle post by TimRiley at May 16,2014 8:32pm
Although if most of you met me in person, you'd see I'm a pretty decent guy. But I digress.



toggletoggle post by posbleak   at May 16,2014 8:55pm



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at May 16,2014 9:34pm
TimRiley said[orig][quote]
Although if most of you met me in person, you'd see I'm a pretty decent guy. But I digress.


If you're "decent" you definitely don't belong here.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 16,2014 9:36pm
Just for the record, I haven't complained about this site to Aaron at all, I don't hold it dear enough to do that and can and have found friends and show information elsewhere, so as a resource, yeah perhaps this site helps somewhat but it isn't the be all end all of knowledge. But come on, in the real world when someone abuses a privilege, they get it taken away. Perhaps it's just a few sour apples doing all of the trolling on this board, but what I could encourage instead is posting some IP addresses and personal information of people who keep up the bullshit incessantly. I am 100% in favor of humiliating and kicking the shit out of people who try to ruin a good thing. So things cannot continue the way they are now, but all of us who actually log in simply posting more often is not going to do a damn thing, if anything all that will do is waste the Rev's bandwidth while the ratio of crap to coherence stays the same. Either anon posting should get shut off or personal info of people who abuse the privilege needs to be posted publicly. There's my answer.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 16,2014 9:37pm
And I say all of this as someone who has used anon posting to attempt to create funny before, I don't NEED to troll people and haven't used the anon feature in quite some time. Would gladly give it up for a more coherent resource.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 16,2014 9:42pm edited May 16,2014 9:43pm
Yeti said[orig][quote]
But on the other hand I don't think there are a lot of noobs scrambling to get on this board due to the fact they are probably whiny faggots who can't take what's dished out, and a lot of people of old are long gone.


See, I also have a problem with this. The status quo on this board (and the majority of message boards for that matter) seems to be that everyone has to be shit on relentlessly before they can be accepted. I say, as long as people are willing to engage in actual discussion, why do they need to be shit on? I see nothing wrong with people offering a different opinion, only the ones who can't back up what they say with any sort of argument when they are challenged. The only people who should be shit on are the ones who lack the capacity for logic and can't carry out a real conversation. Bullying should be used as a method when all else has failed, not as the immediate reaction to anyone with a screen name that isn't recognizable off the bat.



toggletoggle post by ALL TOGETHER, NOW: at May 16,2014 10:27pm
shutup_fagget



toggletoggle post by MotleyGrue at May 17,2014 12:59am
Lamp said[orig][quote]
Yeti said[orig][quote]
But on the other hand I don't think there are a lot of noobs scrambling to get on this board due to the fact they are probably whiny faggots who can't take what's dished out, and a lot of people of old are long gone.


See, I also have a problem with this. The status quo on this board (and the majority of message boards for that matter) seems to be that everyone has to be shit on relentlessly before they can be accepted. I say, as long as people are willing to engage in actual discussion, why do they need to be shit on? I see nothing wrong with people offering a different opinion, only the ones who can't back up what they say with any sort of argument when they are challenged. The only people who should be shit on are the ones who lack the capacity for logic and can't carry out a real conversation. Bullying should be used as a method when all else has failed, not as the immediate reaction to anyone with a screen name that isn't recognizable off the bat.


Should be in the New Rules Thread for New Members.

I am looking at you Senior Members, do something about it, make a permanent thread, stand your ground you won't.




toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 17,2014 1:58am
Yeah, but we all know there won't be a permanent thread about it. The only person who has any sort of moderator powers around here will just start passive threads exactly like this lashing out at all of us once in a while when in reality what we can do about the ratio of bullshit on this forum is quite limited.



toggletoggle post by xgodzillax  at May 17,2014 2:19am
I rarely post or even read this forum because of all the fucking trolls. RIP rttp

/Internet



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at May 17,2014 3:04am
What is a 'senior member'? It shouldn't matter when people joined this board.

Also, trolling is a necessary medium on this forum, and always has been. I can't get down with the personal shots at people and/or when family is brought into the equation... but there are still hilarious trolls. The apex of this forum was 2006-2010. Trolls existed back then. There were just more people actively posting. As I recall, most people enjoyed watching people get made fun of here. I had spent way too many of my working hours wasting time on this board. There's nothing much else to offer. What, are we going to hand the board down to the younger generations? The ones that grew up with Myspace and Facebook? That's the real reason why this message board is down. People have matured and moved on with their lives. The younger kids get most of their fill on Facebook or some other stupid social networking site. Yes, the shit talking trolls and personal attack trolls dissuade people from coming here, but there is no solution to stopping how people behave logged in or not. Every message board on the internet has always had a troll in some form or another. This forum is the wild wild west. It's an open frontier that is full of dangers. But every now and then people stumble across gold.
I wish I could offer some sort of help in bringing this board back to what it used to be, but that will ultimately result in nothing... and quite frankly, what would be the point?

Also,



bennyhillifier



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at May 17,2014 3:08am edited May 17,2014 3:08am
Lamp said[orig][quote]
personal info of people who abuse the privilege needs to be posted publicly. There's my answer.


Cool lawsuit waiting to halpen, bro.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at May 17,2014 3:13am
Also, MotleyGrue.. I'm sorry. I don't believe you that you were the first shutup fagget.



toggletoggle post by Alx_Casket  at May 17,2014 3:48am
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
Also, MotleyGrue.. I'm sorry. I don't believe you that you were the first shutup fagget.




toggletoggle post by shutup fagget at May 17,2014 7:44am
MotleyGrue said[orig][quote]
Lamp said[orig][quote]
And really, how fucking insulting is it when the only person who actually has the ability to clamp down on this and take a real step to improve the quality ratio on this forum shovels it onto people like us who actually post not anonymously and acts like it's our problem for not posting enough?


I call bullshit on this, this is the same tired issue that comes out from time to time, bitching about the trolls. Now lets take a good look at this, who started the trolls, the older board members/the long gone ones, new trolls didn't ruin this or create it, they see how it works, and they adapt or fail trying to. If the elder board members took more responsibility with this issue and stamped out the troll problem we wouldn't be having this discussion.

In regards to new members/bands on the board, usually they get shit on pretty good, while I understand the trial by fire, is it really necessary? If they are being fagget, why not help them understand and learn to not post like one so they can contribute more to a board instead of getting run off. Sometimes this board is like an old boys club, you have to have known someone, or be in a scene to be accepted or else you are trolled hard or ignored, more so with the bands, not everybody likes the same style of music, and to be quite honest lots of bands suck, but at least they are doing something and posting about it to only get shit on.

Now look really hard at what the Rev just did, he got tired of hearing you bitch about it, he posted about it, and started a discussion, which is what everyone on here is SO hungry for, and posting about, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

There needs to be a set of new rules established by the senior members, and Rev on how this board works, and how to post, like introductions of a new poster so we might get the chance to know a little something about this person, on the grounds that he is not shit on immediately, as well as bands, and new posters/bands need to understand how this forum works/runs so they wont run away like faggets.

So to finish my train of thought before I forget(yes I am drinking and tired of typing) this is one of the last frontiers of the wild west let us try to use some fucking discretion even when we are drunk/spiteful/high/trying too hard/being informative, and take back your board one day, one post at a time.

And as far as the Shutup Fagget troll, I created that, then let it be community property for the RTTP board to use, only to see some ANON created an account for it, so to that fagget, Your Welcome.

shutup fagget



toggletoggle post by Mark_R at May 17,2014 10:51am
Most of the anons and a lot of the trolling aren't a huge problem. As pointed out up there, it's the neverending $18 and Thunderstool posts that are so far past being funny and are just irritating. The way people can see a marked improvement just by cutting soda out of their diet without changing anything else, this board would immediately be in much better shape just by (somehow) getting rid of those two, even with all other anons remaining.



toggletoggle post by MotleyGrue at May 17,2014 11:01am edited May 17,2014 11:02am
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
Also, MotleyGrue.. I'm sorry. I don't believe you that you were the first shutup fagget.


It's cool, and I was, I don't remember the thread I started posting it in, and someone could have been you or another logged in poster was trying to correct my grammar with the way I spelled it. Honestly didn't think it would be a successful troll, and I know lots of others used it. Like I said it's cool if you or others don't believe me that's ok, but the shutup fagget has brought lots of lol's to the board.



toggletoggle post by BenFo at May 17,2014 12:25pm
Internuts



toggletoggle post by shutup fagget at May 17,2014 12:34pm
MotleyGrue said[orig][quote]
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
Also, MotleyGrue.. I'm sorry. I don't believe you that you were the first shutup fagget.


It's cool, and I was, I don't remember the thread I started posting it in, and someone could have been you or another logged in poster was trying to correct my grammar with the way I spelled it. Honestly didn't think it would be a successful troll, and I know lots of others used it. Like I said it's cool if you or others don't believe me that's ok, but the shutup fagget has brought lots of lol's to the board.

shutup fagget



toggletoggle post by The_reverend   at May 17,2014 5:49pm
The funny thing is the people who post also are know all the troll jokes and will tell me things that happened that day in the board in trolling



toggletoggle post by troll observer at May 17,2014 6:52pm
Mark_R said[orig][quote]
Most of the anons and a lot of the trolling aren't a huge problem. As pointed out up there, it's the neverending $18 and Thunderstool posts that are so far past being funny and are just irritating. The way people can see a marked improvement just by cutting soda out of their diet without changing anything else, this board would immediately be in much better shape just by (somehow) getting rid of those two, even with all other anons remaining.


You mean Scott Wily.



toggletoggle post by Divaldo-Gustavo   at May 18,2014 10:49am
Onlee wit a logon sistim can we prevant trolls playin gaymes



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 18,2014 1:04pm
Trolls that make accounts are about a hundred times likelier to be funny.



toggletoggle post by Burnsy at May 18,2014 2:14pm
Like the poster directly before you?



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at May 18,2014 6:07pm
You understand context.



toggletoggle post by DYA is DUAL BISMUTH YAW GATE at May 19,2014 8:07am
Divaldo-Gustavo said[orig][quote]
Onlee wit a logon sistim can we prevant trolls playin gaymes


QFT



toggletoggle post by TRUCK BALLS at May 19,2014 3:46pm


Long live the Peepee-less Prius!



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at May 19,2014 4:38pm
I never had a prius



toggletoggle post by xmikex at May 19,2014 6:25pm
Divaldo-Gustavo said[orig][quote]
Onlee wit a logon sistim can we prevant trolls playin gaymes


We have a login system. It's flawless. It's just option and flawless. BUT IT'S STILL FLAWLESS.



toggletoggle post by Pires at May 20,2014 10:43am
xgodzillax said[orig][quote]
I rarely post or even read this forum because of all the fucking trolls. RIP rttp

/Internet


agreed. that and pretty much everyone from '06-'11 (est.) is gone. No more MSD posts? What's up with that?



toggletoggle post by DYA is DUAL BISMUTH YAW GATE at May 20,2014 5:39pm
I propose we solve two problems at once and make the members of Jocks Blood moderators.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at May 20,2014 6:05pm
Introducing the new LDAP security feature in the form of a big chunk of wood.



toggletoggle post by Brian Peppers at Sep 9,2014 3:30pm
Stuffed fagettes



toggletoggle post by robing at Sep 9,2014 3:56pm
AMMONIA BOOKING IS BACK YOU FAGS LI FTW



toggletoggle post by Blake Judd Nelson at Sep 9,2014 3:59pm
RTTP%20DEPT%20OF%20BROKEN%20FUCKING%20RECORDS said[orig][quote]
NO ONE TALKS ABOUT MUSIC ANYMORE AND WHENEVER SOMEONE DOES THEY GET MADE FUN OF
*Goes on Facebook and posts videos of awful bands. Confuses liking every single band with having diverse taste in music.*

ALL ANYONE EVER POSTS ARE STUPID IMMATURE JOKES
*Realizes they've grown up to be a boring fagget with no sense of humor*

THE ONLY ONES THAT POST ARE ANONYMOUS TROLLS!! IT'S SO ANNOYING!!
*Logs out as soon as they see something they don't like to talk shit NLI. Pretends they never do.*

ANONYMOUS TROLLS ARE RUINING THE SCENE
*Listens to metal because they grew up without friends. Still has no friends because is fagget.*

WHAT DO I CARE WHAT RTTP THINKS? YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF RACIST/SEXIST ASSHOLES
*Goes on Facebook to push their own politics and views on everyone. Fagget friends don't give a shit but refuse to "Shutup Fagget" b/c they realize it's the best and most effective catch phrase ever and won't admit RTTP was right all along*

YOU TROLLS CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT. YOUR IMMATURE BULLSHIT WON'T STOP ME/MY BAND/MY PROMOTION COMPANY
*Deletes facebook/Gets kicked off show/Breaks up band/deletes everyone associated with RTTP from facebook/still gets trolled*


This and Robin is a fagget who got beat up by his ex girlfriend.



toggletoggle post by CJ Peeper at Sep 9,2014 6:34pm
fags



toggletoggle post by slambone at Oct 7,2014 10:05am
bump



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Oct 7,2014 10:36am
This is still an issue.



toggletoggle post by THIS at Oct 7,2014 10:59am
troll%20observer said[orig][quote]
Mark_R said[orig][quote]
Most of the anons and a lot of the trolling aren't a huge problem. As pointed out up there, it's the neverending $18 and Thunderstool posts that are so far past being funny and are just irritating. The way people can see a marked improvement just by cutting soda out of their diet without changing anything else, this board would immediately be in much better shape just by (somehow) getting rid of those two, even with all other anons remaining.


You mean Scott Wily.


THIS caused a mass exodus of regular posters.




toggletoggle post by Jeff V at Oct 7,2014 11:43am
I'm here for you RTTP.




toggletoggle post by Jeff V at Oct 7,2014 11:44am



toggletoggle post by INB4 at Oct 7,2014 11:52am
THIS said[orig][quote]
troll%20observer said[orig][quote]
Mark_R said[orig][quote]
Most of the anons and a lot of the trolling aren't a huge problem. As pointed out up there, it's the neverending $18 and Thunderstool posts that are so far past being funny and are just irritating. The way people can see a marked improvement just by cutting soda out of their diet without changing anything else, this board would immediately be in much better shape just by (somehow) getting rid of those two, even with all other anons remaining.


You mean Scott Wily.


THIS caused a mass exodus of regular posters.



INB4 a certain female posts in this thread and tries to make it about her.



toggletoggle post by I am a robot at Oct 7,2014 12:22pm
01001001 00100000 01100001 01101101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 00101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100001 01101101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 00101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100001 01101101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 00101110



toggletoggle post by the real truth at Oct 7,2014 12:23pm
I saw some spandex in that cunt's bed...



toggletoggle post by the real real truth at Oct 7,2014 12:35pm
the%20real%20truth said[orig][quote]
I saw some spandex in that cunt's bed...


Oh hi scott



toggletoggle post by RTTP DEPARTMENT OF NEWBIE TROLL RELATIONS at Oct 7,2014 1:11pm
OUR ADVANCED ALGORITHMS HAVE DETECTED A HIGH CONCENTRATION OF N00BS. WE HAVE DETECTED DANGEROUSLY LOW LEVELS OF SENIOR BOARD MEMBERS. THESE LEVELS HAVE REACHED CRITICAL STATUS. PLEASE STAND BY FOR SELF DESTRUCT SEQUENCE 654684892848094890.



toggletoggle post by suggestion at Oct 7,2014 2:22pm
Get rid of the recent searches field. Death threats every day. All Wily all the time.



toggletoggle post by BETTER Suggestion at Oct 8,2014 11:10am
Stop talking about kicking Wily's ass and just go do it. Put a purse under a net and wait for him to pounce. MT Chris is the biggest pussy of all time (HAHAHAHA!!)



toggletoggle post by George W. Bush at Oct 8,2014 11:22am
BETTER%20Suggestion said[orig][quote]
Stop talking about kicking Wily's ass and just go do it.


Wily hides like Osama Bin Laden. Smoke him out of his snake hole!



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