You guys gonna hate on Revocation now that they're hooking up with Scion?

nice toyota logo on the poster....great bands...total sellout to the man gig.

It's definitely not helping my opinion of them, unfortunately.

The biggest disappointment on that show is Cellgraft. Boooooooooo.

absolutely not. i'm fucking glad they're getting huge tours/shows, regardless of who sponsors them.

yea, it totally "sucks" they're getting paid to do what we all want to do. fuck the haters. congrats to revocation once again.

Aside from Cellgraft, most of this doesn't bother me, honestly. Metal has never and will never be about DIY, and it falls perfectly in suit that a genre based around so much misanthropy would be excited about leaving the people behind who helped build your name in search of "greener pastures"... so fuck it.

Ooooff Lamp, that is way out there don't you think? And look at how sick that show is, Psychic TV next to Saint Vitus!! I don't care if it's the Vatican sponsoring the show, they're giving great bands cash.

I'd go to this. Blows away the "metal" fest in woosta.

Yeah Cellgraft's puzzling. Like the Revo dudes I know Zell's a good dude so it's not like they're going to NEVER SEND ME A T-SHIRT, COUGH MAGRUDERGRIND

shit's lame

Revocation absolutely destroys Magrudergrind, FUCK MG.

Also, who the hell is Psychic TV? I've never even heard of them.

What I really wanna know is, why is Sleep opening for Down

How could anyone hate this show? If you can get a big company to pony up cash for a line-up that doesn't blow, how can you go wrong?

This line-up isn't bad at all. As mentioned above, waaaay better than that faggotry known as NEMHF.

If this was in northeast I would go. Interesting mix... (mezbow wtf?) Too bad FL is fucking a shitdump fuckpisshole and I'll never ever go there.

They basicly started Industrial music with 2 or 3 other bands in the late 70's

If you can help a big company significantly reduce their advertising expenditures by putting on a "cool" show to sell more of their product and involve outsiders with no passion for music in a place where they don't belong, how can you... oh, wait.

"involve outsiders with no passion for music in a place where they don't belong"

What is this? A cult?

We've beaten the subject of Scion to death multiple times, but that line made my head spin.

Accepting Scion money is as much a betrayal of DIY ethos as signing to a major label. In fact thanks to the decline of physical music sales Scion functions as a major label. Bands still getting fucked only instead of some record executive taking the cut it's a car executive.

How are bands getting fucked here? I don't see how Scion is treating any band it's woked with unfairly in any way. Did I miss something?

"music business" bands like that don't play for free. look at any fest where bands actually get paid. they all have sponsors. are you more likely to buy an ibanez because they sponsor a fest? sorry but investors with cash are the people that make these shows happen. it's not the 80's and not every band is black flag. DIY puts food in your gullet one night and not the next.

and "accepting scion money" like it's a pact with the devil. ask any touring band that actually depends on that money to make it to the next gig. EVERY one of them would say YES PLEASE.

scion has a good reputation for treating bands well which is why they're able to put on stacked shows like this. that can't be said about most labels big or small.

I haven't heard anything from them in years. I used to listen to them on industrial comps and genesis P-Orridge stuff.oh the acid days.

Some people you just can't reach, its what we had here last week. Which is the way he was...I don't like it anymore than you do.

It's our scene, not theirs.

Act like it.

lol that is just silly

No more arguing about this topic from me. Clearly, I don't share the same ethics as other people, and therefore, reason doesn't apply. Carry on.

Anyone who plays an instrument is as much in bed with multinational corporations as these bands are. Get off your high horses with your guitar center bought guitar cab, and gibson les Paul. You can't get away from powerful corporations no
Matter what you do. Don't hate on these bands for taking advantage of a good opportunity. Anyone who plays music and suffers the life of a starving artist, would hop on this show in a heartbeat.

Idiots.

"our scene" and "passion for music" wide-eyed teen talk man. it's time and money to play music. yes even grind bands need money. accepting promoter money isn't the death of the underground (what the hell is that anymore) and a victory for capitalism or something.

Sellouts Johnson is right!

only making your own instruments is real.

bennyhillifier

Pretty sure this isn't Phobia's first dance with these corporate types.

Burn the witch

Well duuuuuuh.

I just think basement shows and checking out new bands embody the spirit of the underground and of course I believe in bands having their gas tanks filled and merch bought, etc. Yes I listen to plenty of "big name" bands, blah blah. At the end of the day, I just don't see how anyone could think a fest with the same tired bands that have been around for 30 years at a giant stadium with overpriced beers and swarms of overnighters everywhere in sight is more fun than going to a basement or warehouse and seeing the same small group of friends you know are psyched about new bands and people who are interested in bringing those bands to your town.

I don't expect to make money off playing music, ever. That's what I get a job for. I'm not asking that corporations stay out of my life entirely... I'd just like them to stay the fuck away from this one thing.

This also goes back to the earlier point of being disappointed by Cellgraft being on the show... I know bands like Down, Exodus, Repulsion, Phobia, all the other death metal bands are not part of that group and haven't been for some time, so whatever they want to do is pretty much irrelevant to me at this point. I had just never heard of Cellgraft doing anything like this before and was disappointed by their choice of what to do with their band. That's all.

"white folks, they take everything. They took Tina Turner, they took Michael Jackson, they took James Brown...gave him back, who else they take? Lionel Richie. Oh, they'll take stuff from you." -Paul Mooney

First all, do you understand its first come first serve for tickets, kinda the same thing the AS220 is doing for the Nasum show.

Also when the now super hated band Magrudergrind put out the record thru scion they gave it away. All the buyer had to pay was shipping.

Not bad in my opinion, also name one band who wouldn't go along with that.

Or for that matter paid airplane tickets, a hotel for the band and catering. Holy shit its like being a lifetime al bundy and then being asked to pitch at fenway park.

The horror, the horror. whatever, y'all just want nonsense to argue over.

And I would love to see you tell the doods from New Lows or Mind Eraser that theyve made poor life choices for taking scion money

what "Sellouts" said.

a lot of the Scion complaints are actually code for "i'd like my romantic illusion of a pure DIY underground scene to continue without having a corporate logo intruding on my fantasy". i can understand that, just say that instead.

Repulsion

ITT: casting calls for the remake of Pump up the Volume.

I just don't have the energy for this shit right now... I need some fucking pizza. Pizza is way more important than any of this bullshit

Yeah Magrudergrind didn't charge anything for the ep but I still paid 15 bucks for it because they never sent the fucking t-shirt I'd ordered

One more thing, Wormrot and Immolation did the same thing through Scion, and yet, I don't remember hearing any outrage/hate towards those bands when they did. Just wanted to get that out.

Enslaved too. Free EP was fucking awesome. They didn't wear scion shirts live or anything.

Haha. This. First track on the EP is so killer.

No no Lamp! Pizza can't save you now. I still demand satisfaction for the "metal is not about DIY" comment. Can you really keep a straight face and say that, sort of devalues the efforts of a million bands. I seem to remember self-producing, self-releasing, screen printing, shirt pressing, duping and cutting print for tapes, fucking leatherworking, etc that would put any band who claims those three magical letters as a selling point to shaaaame. You'll pay for that comment at the next D&D table buddy.

As for Cellgraft, sorry their actions don't sync with what you think their ethics are, why don't you ask them why they did that, maybe they will change your mind.

Lol @ this thread.

Because, as far as I can tell, metal bands only use DIY as a stepping stone out of necessity because when they start out, they have no other choice. I would be willing to make a solid wager that just about any metal band who is DIY now would jump right on board with Scion or a major label if given the chance, rather than make it their lifestyle and band's career path.

Was anybody really surprised when either of these bands jumped on board with Scion? Wormrot was already signed to Earache and Immolation... well, I'm not going to claim like I know anything about their career path, I've never even listened to them. So perhaps someone else can rebound me about what they have done with their band.

Magrudergrind on the other hand, outright rejected an offer from Relapse PRIOR to working with Scion, not to mention they were the first band to jump on board with these shenanigans as far as I know, so it came as much more of a shock to me anyway. I had no idea what "Scion Audio Visual" was before the deal for the Crusher EP was made.

I laugh at how serious people take certain things here. No offense to anybody. People act like it's "their thing" that's being taken hostage.

That's quite a broad brush. I'd be willing to meet any musician who's career path involves not getting any compensation and just plays and tours out of the goodness of their heart, their strings are changed by unicorns and fairies make sure their amps never blow out. Bands turn down offers all the time if artistic integrity is an issue, it seems like integrity to some people involves "not accepting any money except from your dirt poor fans". Playing a certain genre of music doesn't infer anything about the type of person playing it.

You wouldn't download a Scion.

Obviously by my pizza and D&D comment I'm not taking any of this to heart. Please. I'm not that kind of person, people who know me here know that. It's Friday and I'm sipping coffee with scorn at Lamp's comments.

Maybe I have that washed up hobby rocker thing laid on too thick but of all battles this one seems weird to pick. I do like my DIY warehouse shows tho.

btw I just got Pier Pizza NK, slammin

Thread ended back here. Cat is KILLING me.

Holy shit I just learned so much about cars in Why I Don’t Give a Shit About Scionfest.

MVP of this thread - Alx_Casket

Well, nobody tours out of the goodness of their heart, really. But people always come to that point in their life where they either quit or they sell out, which are basically the same thing anyway. Quitting is just frowned upon though I find it to be graceful, where as selling out does pay the bills that everyone has in life, but I also find it to be a slap in the face.

There are people out there who are older and still into doing their thing musically and are happy basically taking the piss, but obviously not everyone's going to feel that way, and some are going to get to the point where they have a decision to make. Honestly, if your heart's not in it anymore, I'd rather just see someone quit. I can't hold it against another human being for losing interest. But the whole "taking Scion's money" thing to me is just once again, a slap in the face and it makes me wonder what the people who would accept such an offer really thought of their peers in the scene anyway. I guess it's just a fact of life to find out sometimes that people you thought were your friends are actually not (and it's happened to all of us at some point I'm sure), but it doesn't stop being a bummer every time.

I guess what I'm trying to say at the bottom of the matter is I am just a lonely loser who views music more as a network of friends and like minded people rather than a way to draw attention to myself, and I just don't see a problem with being a piss ant my whole life if it means having good company around.

Damn, I really gotta come see you play.

TRYING....SO HARD.....TO NOT REPLY.....GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


OK, it's obvious that your definition of selling out and mine are two totally different things. IMO, selling out means you are changing something about yourself for money, fame, popularity, etc. I don't see how any band, with the exception of MAYBE Magrudergrind, that has been involved with Scion has done that since being involved with them. It seems, from my perspective at least, that Scion is basically just helping these bands out, and the bands aren't changing what they do musically in exchange for that help. Again, where's the harm in that?

Also, why are quitting and selling out the only two options? Why can't there be a "doing what you love for a long time while making a living off of it" option?

No. No I wouldn't.

Lamp ITT:

The idea that accepting money is "betraying" friends in a scene, or the idea of a scene or some allegiance to a group of scenesters, those are ideas I never cared for. That's why I missed the hardcore boat on purpose. I don't feel obligated to like a band just because of where they're from or what they play. Doesn't mean I don't find good company when I actually make it to shows. I guess that's where you and I differ Lamp, carry on.

Hardcore isn't about that really either, but I get what you meant.

it's all about the fucking tunes coming out of the speakers, goddamnit!

did the band change their tunes for some other reason besides their own creativity? no? good, more opportunity or money for more tunes by said band means more goodness.

bennyhillifier

I'll just leave this point right here: I'm NOT just in the scene for the music only.

We've got a couple shows in May, but we should hang out at some point before then. I don't see you often enough, man.

I'm in it for the import cars, mostly.

Okay... you got me... I lol'd

Yeah, I can see both sides of this one too. It's a matter of not believing that someone is my ally just because they're in my scene, but people have different ideas of what the scene is all about, hence all the subgenres/factions that have surfaced since being conceived in the last 30 years. That's fine by me, I'll just find the closest thing to what I consider my own belief system and roll with that.

This is also not necessarily saying the bands I like to listen to most are people who believe what I do, but when I get along with someone on a personal level, it definitely helps my enjoyment of their band.

You guys are worse than Arillius the Grey.

So are you.

I stopped reading once someone said the word "scene"

You all and your so called scene. That same scene that you shit on and troll endlessly while never giving any band a solid constructive criticism. I've watched every scene for 15 years say "it was better 5 years ago". Shut up and listen to music. If you don't like it, write better music yourself to listen to. But eventually you'll get to the point where scion asks you to play a fest with sleep, down, repulsion, and fucking Ghost or some shit and you'll say "no, I can't, rttp will call me false sorry"


Idiots.

This thread is fucking gay.

agreed. Let's do tHAT. Cuz I'll prolly wanna check out that funky jungle show but don't know where it is.

Mmmmmhmmm.

Go tell it on the mountain, brother

And yet if it wasn't for having a "scene", none of the bands you listen to would even exist.

Every hobby has a scene and in order to pursue it further, sometimes putting up with bullshit is necessary. Deal with it.

I would fuckin go to this if it were nearby... saint vitus