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returntothepit >> discuss >> Is the first Suicidal Tendencies album a hardcore album? by KEVORD on Apr 10,2009 3:08pm
Add To All Your Pages!
Is the first Suicidal Tendencies album a hardcore album? - usless poll
1Yes, the first Suicidal is hardcore
2No, I am dumb
no vote


toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 10,2009 3:08pm
I say it's hardcore punk. Pam says it's not.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Apr 10,2009 3:09pm
It isn't metal. Pam doesn't know anything about hardcore because she hung out with Upon Crimson Wings during her formative years.



toggletoggle post by badsneakers at Apr 10,2009 3:12pm
sure



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Apr 10,2009 3:13pm
i say it's mathematical flamenco polka



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 10,2009 3:13pm
I listed it in a top 5 as a hardcore album on Facebook and she say's it's not hardcore. I guess I should have put Hatebreed instead.



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Apr 10,2009 3:14pm



toggletoggle post by Dave_Maggot   at Apr 10,2009 3:15pm edited Apr 10,2009 3:16pm
post by RichHorror at Apr 10,2009 3:09pm
It isn't metal. Pam doesn't know anything about hardcore because she hung out with Upon Crimson Wings during her formative years




me and mark used the jedi mind trick to erase hardcore from the minds of many a girl



toggletoggle post by Dave_Maggot   at Apr 10,2009 3:16pm
next we will erase slam and start playing country music



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 10,2009 3:16pm
Another response I got from someone else said Black Flag is not a hardcore band either.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Apr 10,2009 3:17pm
Obviously not they only helped invent it.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Apr 10,2009 3:25pm
I lump the first ST album into the crossover thrash category but they're definitely way more on the punk side of it than the metal side.



toggletoggle post by alexc  at Apr 10,2009 4:45pm
the first album isnt really metal at all. they start developing their cross overy sound on join the army, most definitely



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Apr 10,2009 4:55pm
I just try to look at it more for the timeframe... I don't think a record like that would fit into crossover thrash in modern day, but how many hardcore bands had shreddy solos in their songs in 1983? Or their style of riffing?



toggletoggle post by alexc  at Apr 10,2009 5:01pm
true, the beginnings were definitely there. everything in context.



toggletoggle post by reimroc at Apr 10,2009 6:26pm
i believe the term is "crossover-thrash"



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Apr 10,2009 6:46pm
The hyphen doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.



toggletoggle post by reimroc at Apr 10,2009 7:00pm edited Apr 10,2009 7:01pm
the hyphen forms the crossover between hardcore punk and trash.



toggletoggle post by Dankill at Apr 10,2009 7:14pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
I lump the first ST album into the crossover thrash category but they're definitely way more on the punk side of it than the metal side.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Apr 10,2009 8:46pm
Clearly a thrash album.



toggletoggle post by BlackoutRick at Apr 10,2009 11:04pm
It wasn't a hardcore album. It was a Suicidal Tendencies album. Get it yet?



toggletoggle post by BlackoutRick at Apr 10,2009 11:05pm edited Apr 10,2009 11:05pm
Thrash, punk, metal, etc. etc............



toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 11,2009 12:16am
reimroc said[orig][quote]
i believe the term is "crossover-thrash"


Thank you. I said they were a cross-over band. Kevin got disagreed with on Facebook and just needs to throw a quick man-tantrum about it.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 11,2009 12:17am
RichHorror said[orig][quote]
It isn't metal. Pam doesn't know anything about hardcore because she hung out with Upon Crimson Wings during her formative years.


Pam never said it was metal either. ;)



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 1:42am
It is not crossover thrash. When Suicidal first formed and released the self titled album in 1983 they were a hardcore punk band. They had no ties to any thrash bands or scene. It wasn't until 1987 with a different lineup that a more crossover thrash sound was used. I bet half the people commenting including Pam don't even own the first album. That "Still Psycho after all these Years" bullshit doesn't count either.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 1:46am
Early career, controversy, and first hiatus (1981–1986)
Suicidal Tendencies were formed in the early 1980s as a hardcore punk band in Venice, California.[1] The original line-up of the band consisted of Muir on vocals, Mike Ball on guitar, Carlos "Egie" Egert on drums, and Mike Dunnigan on bass. After the recording of its first demo, Carlos Egert left the band and was replaced by Dunnigan's brother Sean. Muir, at the time a student at Santa Monica College, originally only intended Suicidal Tendencies as a "party band" for fun, but as the band grew in notoriety he soon found the band at the center of his life. Suicidal Tendencies had a rough start that included being voted "Worst Band/Biggest Assholes" in Flipside in 1982. There were many rumors of the band members being involved with gangs (especially the Crips or Sureńos, with Muirs trademark blue bandanna and the repeated use of the number 13 as prime evidence) and violence at the bands performances.[1] In their original line-up photo which can be seen inside their cassette tape self titled "Suicidal Tendencies," their drummer Amery Smith is wearing a flipped up hat and under the bill are the markings "V13" which are initials for the gang Venice 13. The band name was also a source of controversy, although Muir has stated many times that he and the band do not condone suicide. Using the opposition to fuel creativity, they quickly gained a following and began performing at larger gigs. They recorded a demo in 1982 and were featured on the Slamulation compilation LP on Mystic Records. The song featured was "I Saw Your Mommy", which was later featured on their self-titled debut album. The Dunnigan brothers quit after these recordings, with Mike Dunnigan later joining Tony Alva's band The Skoundrelz. They were replaced by Mike Ball on guitar and Amery Smith on drums. Ball didn't stay in the band for long and also went to join The Skoundrelz and was replaced by Rick Battson who toured and recorded the Demo before the first record came out. Grant Estes replaced him.

All this controversy helped the band gain label attention, and in 1983 Suicidal signed with the independent label Frontier Records and released their self-titled debut.[1] It was described by critic Steve Huey as "Fast, furious, and funny... Mike Muir proves himself an articulate lyricist and commentator, delving into subjects like alienation, depression, and nonconformist politics with intelligence and humor."[1]. It contained the song "Institutionalized", which featured a music video that became one of the first hardcore punk videos to receive substantial MTV airplay, and greatly expanded the band's fan base. The song, with its plaintive "All I wanted was a Pepsi" lyric, was also featured on the 1984 film Repo Man, as well as in an episode for the TV show Miami Vice (for which the group made a cameo appearance).[1] Soon after the release of the debut album in 1983, Estes left the band and was replaced by Jon Nelson, former manager of Venice-based band Neighborhood Watch. Nelson played many shows with the band but never recorded anything with them (except a live recording of the song "War Inside My head" which he wrote, but traded the credit to Muir for a "Flying 'V' guitar). He and Smith left in 1984 to form another band called The Brood, and were replaced by local metal musicians; guitarist Rocky George and drummer R. J. Herrera. This new line-up made their recording debut contributing to the Welcome to Venice compilation for Mike Muir's Suicidal Records. The band finally found a new label in Caroline Records in 1986.[1]


[edit] First comeback (1987–1988)
With the line-up of Muir, Mayorga, George, and Herrera, the band released their second album, Join the Army, in 1987 (see 1987 in music). The album was met with a mixed reaction from long-time fans due to its considerably more metal-oriented sound (an element brought to the table by Rocky George), as they were expecting another punk album. Nonetheless, Join the Army featured classic tracks such as "War Inside My Head" and "Possessed To Skate" (which featured a video, originally intended for an unsuccessful Skateboard Movie, which featured Timothy Leary).

Shortly afterwards, the band made some major changes. Rocky George's metal influences (reflected in his Motörhead-esque songwriting contributions to Join the Army) began in turn influencing Muir, who replaced Keven Guercio as singer for Mike Clark's speed metal band No Mercy prior to this. Muir hired No Mercy's guitarist Mike Clark as a rhythm guitarist for Suicidal. Clark helped handle much of the band's songwriting, which progressed into a more thrash oriented musical direction. Then he fired Mayorga, who had been trying to keep the band in punk territory, and was replaced briefly by No Mercy bassist Ric Clayton, who was replaced by Bob Heathcote. Shortly after the band was picked up by Anthrax producer Mark Dodson and signed to the Columbia subsidiary Epic Records. The stylistic changes and signing to a major label outraged a few long-time fans, but Suicidal began to pick up more fans from the heavy metal community as well.




toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 1:52am
From SuicidalTendencies.com:

The story so far
Judging from their name, Suicidal Tendencies were never afraid of a little controversy. Formed in Venice, CA, during the early '80s, the group's leader from the beginning was outspoken vocalist Mike Muir. The outfit specialized in vicious hardcore early on -- building a huge following among skateboarders, lending a major hand in the creation of skatepunk -- before turning their focus eventually to thrash metal.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 2:01am
THIS IS HARDCORE PUNK!



toggletoggle post by joeyumbrella  at Apr 11,2009 7:58am
it is hardcore



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Apr 11,2009 8:23am
KEVORD said[orig][quote]
It is not crossover thrash.


We always just called 'em thrash, like DRI, COC, Cryptic Slaughter, dead horse...



toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 11,2009 10:45am
"Suicidal Tendencies were formed in the early 1980s as a hardcore punk band"

hardcore punk.

CROSSOVER.

And yes I do own it, on a nasty white tape somewhere in my tape box. Suck my asshole, Ord.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Apr 11,2009 11:32am
KEVORD said[orig][quote]
I bet half the people commenting including Pam don't even own the first album.


I have owned the first album since I was 14, shove it up your ass.



toggletoggle post by reimroc at Apr 11,2009 11:35am
i'm pretty sure you can label it either way.



toggletoggle post by boblovesmusicatthecoolidge at Apr 11,2009 11:43am
jazz definitely



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 2:05pm
pam said[orig][quote]
"Suicidal Tendencies were formed in the early 1980s as a hardcore punk band"

hardcore punk.

CROSSOVER.

And yes I do own it, on a nasty white tape somewhere in my tape box. Suck my asshole, Ord.


Hardcore punk does not mean crossover.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 2:05pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
KEVORD said[orig][quote]
I bet half the people commenting including Pam don't even own the first album.


I have owned the first album since I was 14, shove it up your ass.


Did I say Lamp has never owned it. No I didn't.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Apr 11,2009 2:24pm
pam said[orig][quote]
CROSSOVER


No one used that term until DRI did. Before that, it meant trannies (literally).



toggletoggle post by reimroc at Apr 11,2009 2:27pm
i still consider them a crossover band even if their first album was more on the hardcore-punk side of things. i mean most if not all crossover-thrash bands have elements of early hardcore in their music.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Apr 11,2009 2:43pm
I agree entirely with the statement above me.

The first ST album was much more hardcore, Join the Army was a pretty even mix, then by the next one they were a full blown metal band.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 11,2009 3:07pm
reimroc said[orig][quote]
i'm pretty sure you can label it either way.


You can, but that isn't conducive to BEING RIGHT ON THE INTERNET.




toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 11,2009 3:08pm
reimroc said[orig][quote]
i still consider them a crossover band even if their first album was more on the hardcore-punk side of things. i mean most if not all crossover-thrash bands have elements of early hardcore in their music.


Everyone considers Suicidal a crossover band except Kevin Ord.



toggletoggle post by reimroc at Apr 11,2009 3:12pm
lol



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 11,2009 3:22pm
pam said[orig][quote]
reimroc said[orig][quote]
i still consider them a crossover band even if their first album was more on the hardcore-punk side of things. i mean most if not all crossover-thrash bands have elements of early hardcore in their music.


Everyone considers Suicidal a crossover band except Kevin Ord.


I'm only talking about the first album not their entire catalog. Of course they became a crossover band. That's were your wrong. The argument is about ST in 1983 only.



toggletoggle post by pam   at Apr 11,2009 3:24pm
I stand by my statement.



toggletoggle post by Lamp  at Apr 11,2009 3:26pm
Lamp said[orig][quote]
I just try to look at it more for the timeframe... I don't think a record like that would fit into crossover thrash in modern day, but how many hardcore bands had shreddy solos in their songs in 1983? Or their style of riffing?



toggletoggle post by metal_church101  at Apr 13,2009 9:14am
Crossover-core



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Apr 13,2009 9:18am
pam said[orig][quote]
reimroc said[orig][quote]
i believe the term is "crossover-thrash"


Thank you. I said they were a cross-over band. Kevin got disagreed with on Facebook and just needs to throw a quick man-tantrum about it.
a mantrum



toggletoggle post by dreadkill  at Apr 13,2009 9:19am
KEVORD said[orig][quote]
Another response I got from someone else said Black Flag is not a hardcore band either.
their first 2 albums helped define the american neo-folk movement.



toggletoggle post by DYA NLI at Apr 13,2009 9:20am
There isn't a "yeah, duh" option.



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 13,2009 5:08pm
DYA%20NLI said[orig][quote]
There isn't a "yeah, duh" option.


Pam doesn't think there should be and she is the master of all genre's.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Apr 13,2009 5:14pm
Pam likes a band named after a fucking flower so who cares.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Apr 13,2009 5:15pm
Also--




toggletoggle post by boblovesmusic   at Apr 13,2009 5:15pm
bavaria!



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 13,2009 5:20pm
RichHorror said[orig][quote]
Also--



You're my hero.



toggletoggle post by nicrattlehead at Apr 13,2009 6:18pm
I shot Richard, and I'll shoot him again and again and again.



toggletoggle post by RichHorror  at Apr 13,2009 6:35pm
You'd have to. Because dying is losing and if I lost I wouldn't be a champion.



toggletoggle post by AndrewBastard at Apr 13,2009 6:46pm



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Apr 13,2009 6:48pm
I liked it better when people just trolled with dumb comments.



toggletoggle post by AUTOPSY_666   at Apr 13,2009 7:53pm


I need a good dentist.



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