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returntothepit >> discuss >> Democracy is an illusion by y_ddraig_goch on Oct 25,2008 12:41am
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toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Oct 25,2008 12:41am
yeah just watched zeitgeist 2. what an amazing and informative movie. I wonder if there is someone who checked out all the facts, because wow...some of that stuff is unreal, like the economic hitman.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

oh yeah and the venus project has been my dream since i was cognitive

a project meant to produce a society free of government, law, religion, and best of all, useless and repetitive monotonous labor. estimated that 90 percent of all jobs can be automated if money was put into technology. and if the automation benefited the population not the owner of said technology




toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Oct 25,2008 12:47am
quote from the venus project founder


: Elaborate a bit, if you will, on your views regarding money.

A:If all the money in the world were destroyed, as long as we have sufficient arable land, the factories, the necessary resources, and technical personnel, we could build anything and even supply an abundance. During the Depression, there were vacuum cleaners in store windows and automobiles in car lots. The Earth was still the same place. There was just no money in people's wallets and very little purchasing power. At the beginning of World War II, the U.S. had about 600 first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short-supply by turning out over 90,000 planes per year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was No, we did not have enough money or gold, but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources and technical personnel that enabled the U.S. to achieve the production and efficiency required to win the war.

It appears that the real wealth of any nation is in its natural resources and its people who are working toward a more humane life-style through the elimination of scarcity. All social systems, regardless of the political philosophy, religious beliefs, or social mores, ultimately depend upon natural resources -- i.e. clean air and water and arable land area -- and the industrial equipment and technical personnel for a high standard of living. The money- based system was designed hundreds of years ago and was hardly appropriate for that time. We still utilize this same outmoded system, which is probably responsible for most of today's problems. I have no doubt that even the wealthiest person today would be far better off in the high-energy society that Future By Design proposes.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 25,2008 12:57am
Sounds like what Hitler said.

He rejected usury, and re-adjusted the German currency to be based on anticipated output of the German worker.

These people are Nazis ;)



toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Oct 25,2008 1:04am
sounds like logic rather than fantasy.

who makes money out of air? resources are the true wealth of nations



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 25,2008 10:29am
Agreed.

Also there's a great chapter in the book "American Theocracy" where he describes the end-state of national economies -- where wealth is "made" by moving it around, rather than converting it.

The other resource is people.

When national IQ drops below 100, a nation is doomed.

That's why Mexico, which has rich land and plenty of it, is impoverished versus the USA and has been for 198 years.



toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Oct 25,2008 10:45am
there just needs to be a lack of government, government only exists to keep wealth in the hands of the elite. with no poverty in a resource based economy most people would no longer commit crime, most crimes are based on money and the lack thereof.

the thing that needs to happen is for nations and states to no longer exist, for borders to disappear, only when a resource economy is instated because if that happened now we'd be screwed.

they should build those cities in every major country and see how fast they catch on.



on another note, if i happen to have november 4th off I am possibly thinking of going down to where ever people will be voting and holding a sign telling them their vote is useless and that both candidates will do nothing to further their prosperity



toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Oct 25,2008 11:46am
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=80785608139596344

a three part series on bbc about the intelligence revolution. about all kinds of new technology expected in 2020



toggletoggle post by ctB0rderpatrol at Oct 25,2008 12:45pm
i dont know about erasing the borders. some people cannot live together on the same land without fighting. (serbs/albanians, muslims/anyone else, etc)



toggletoggle post by sacreligion at Oct 25,2008 1:24pm
zeitgeist 2 was stupid and did not need to be 2 hours long.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 25,2008 2:06pm
y_ddraig_goch said[orig][quote]
there just needs to be a lack of government, government only exists to keep wealth in the hands of the elite.


Interesting. It seems to me that when there's no regulation, wealth concentrates in the hands of the very few -- and there's no force of law to keep them from becoming tyrants.

On the other hand, abolishing borders seems to let lots of parasitic people to come from poorer areas to wealthy areas, because if we distributed all wealth evenly, we'd all be impoverished -- and then there'd be a crush to get to resources.

I'm not sure resource-independent living will ever exist. If it does, I wonder if humanity will simply stop striving, and become fat complacent apes.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Oct 25,2008 2:16pm
Conservationist said[orig][quote]
because if we distributed all wealth evenly, we'd all be impoverished


yeah because the families that have billions of dollars through taking advantage of loopholes in the law and immensely inhuman and greedy means don't have more than enough money to write every american family a check for $1,000,000



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 25,2008 3:03pm
150 million American families = 150 million million or 150 trillion dollars.

Math doesn't add up!

1/5 of American households are at $140,000/year and over.

You think that people like the guys who own Hollywood studios and sports teams and liquor brands got there by cheating?

No, they got there by selling a product.

That's who most of the wealthy are: people we make wealthy with our habits.



toggletoggle post by y_ddraig_goch  at Oct 25,2008 10:31pm
which is why we need a resource based economy, ditch the dollar, it just inflates, 90 percent inflation since the federal reserve was formed.

sounds suspicious.

no need for money, we have the means to make more than enough goods in the country with automated workers, the technology is here today to automate half of all jobs.

but that would free you up to educate and pursue higher learning.... so the government makes sure it doesnt happen.

money inhibits new technology. like electric cars, oil companies and current car companies will never let electric cars be mainstream or a hundred percent efficient, they wouldn't make money that way.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 26,2008 10:11am
Radix malorum est cupiditas.

I think a resource-based economy is a good idea, but some monetary token will be used. Not letting that be engineered through fiat money is a good idea.

I think we should revisit the idea of the bell curve:

IQ <75 75-90 90-110 110-125 >125
US population distribution 5 20 50 20 5

(That won't format well; you can see the original here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve )

5% of society have the ability for advanced education. I would prefer a meritocracy here.

Most people don't benefit from college unless their IQ is above 115. Why are so many people going to college? I dunno... a lot of it has to do with needing a college degree for many basic jobs now, aaaand thousands of H1-B people who have degrees. Can't hire someone without a degree over someone with a degree and not get called a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc.

What I would rather see is a government that subsidizes those who can do well in a field to get the education they need, and spends zero of its time on failed lives (drug addicts of serious drugs, the chronic welfare poor, democratic politicians, etc).

We need natural selection. Society is dysgenic. No amount of dicking around with The System is gonna fix us drowning in idiots.



toggletoggle post by Martins   at Oct 26,2008 11:08am
A resource-based global economy would require ever denizen of the world to actually be kind hearted or else what Conservationist said would happen. The "wealth" would be concentrated in a few who were more ostentatious.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Oct 26,2008 3:24pm
utopian ideals being impossible in the real world with real people that suck ass?

it's more likely than you think.



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Oct 27,2008 7:22pm
our doom awaits us



toggletoggle post by Martins   at Oct 27,2008 8:32pm
Sacreligion said[orig][quote]
utopian ideals being impossible in the real world with real people that suck ass?

it's more likely than you think.


My point exactly, just more sarcastic and to the point.



toggletoggle post by Sacreligion at Oct 28,2008 3:54am
Martins said[orig][quote]
Sacreligion said[orig][quote]
utopian ideals being impossible in the real world with real people that suck ass?

it's more likely than you think.


My point exactly, just more sarcastic and to the point.


that's how i roll son!



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 28,2008 6:40pm
FuckIsMySignature said[orig][quote]
our doom awaits us


Why choose doom, when we could ship millions of morons to South America and live well instead?

The Moron Exodus of 2012: The Beginning of Sanity!



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